Projecting Potential Salary Growth wrt MS Degree 4

[Ti_Metallurgist]

Hi All,

First post on the site, been lurking for some time. Also not sure if this is the right forum... apologies if not.

I am an Engineer II in a rather large company, based in southern California. I have undergraduate degrees in Materials Science and Engineering and another engineering discipline. I've been working in industry for about 2.5 years and have been at my current job for about 6 months.

I have started an MS degree program this Fall in MSE. My boss has been very supportive, allows me to leave work in the middle of the day to attend class and make up the time later. The company will be reimbursing me for my tuition and supply fees. The only problem so far is that I am not sure if I really want to commit to a few years of the high stress at this point. I don't always feel motivated to go home and study or do homework after solely working for a few years. I am trying to reason and convince myself that it will be worth it, at least financially, in the long run. I am having a hard time estimating how much I would be making in ~ 3 years with and without a masters degree. Is the difference worth how it affects my personal time and social life? Will I "instantly" gain +2 years of "experience" the moment I receive the MS degree (and be eligible for an Eng. 3 position), from the perspective of my company?

Does anyone have suggestions for how to put numbers to both scenarios? FWIW, I'm also a registered EIT... the PE is not really important in my field (aerospace), but I was considering settling for that instead of going through a MS program. Does this have any worth on its own?

Thank you.

Regards,
Ti_Met

 

[EnergyProfessional]

If your company supports you, just do it. There is no better time than now. Later you may have family, kids, are older... it will just be harder later.
If the gained knowledge gets you a promotion or raise at your current company - ask them. But if you may look elsewhere, at least the MS will get you on top of the list.
Same for the PE, just get it. That one is nearly free except your time. Who knows, maybe in 2 years you want to move 2 States away for personal reasons and then look for a job and having an MS and PE can't hurt.

This all if studying for the MS isn't a total struggle and you hate it.

I got my "Master of Engineering" degree knowing my employer doesn't care at all (government - and an HR person told me exactly that in these exact words during a promotion interview). But I know if I ever leave I have better chances and I'm glad I did it since I learned a lot. And I'm glad I did it before my daughter was born. I couldn't imagine doing it now. So I'm double-glad I did it back then. I also got an "HVAC qualifier" license (equivalent to Master Electrician or plumber in WI with an 8-hour test) fully knowing my employer doesn't' care at all. But I wanted to challenge myself and if things go South, at least on paper I have a good shot to find work. Better to have it and never need it than the other way around.

At the end of your life you don't regret the things you did. You only regret the things you didn't do.

 

[MedicineEng]

I'm not in US so I can't give you more than my personal experience. Hope it helps.

I started working before finishing my Engineering course and it was hard to finish it because I was just dragging my feet and losing motivation. Money in the pocket, active social live, no family responsibilities...life was good. I had a well paid and stable job and many of my colleagues were in the same situation (good old times before Y2000 and dotcom burst when companies would just grab you at university gates).
I finally put my mind to finish and defend my final thesis a year later than I was supposed to.
2 years later, I had an opportunity to emigrate, so I changed countries and company. It was supposed to be a 3-4 years stint.
In my new country there was a path for permanent residency if you were considered technical skilled labour. One of the first mandatory evaluation criteria: holding a recognized university degree, preferably in a technical area.
I went through my new country's residency path and now me and my immediate family are all permanent residents here. It makes a huge difference on job stability and government subsidies (education, health, etc.) and handouts, especially during these Covid times.
Meanwhile, already in my new country, I went through a MBA while working, married and with family. Supposed to take 1.5- 2 years, it took almost 4.
During that time I also changed jobs and my still unfinished MBA was a point of salary negotiation.
In terms of salary, I'm basically making (before bonus) around 3-4 times more than what I was making by the time that I arrived to my new country.

So if I hadn't finish my engineering course like a few of my former colleagues, my path would have been completely different...
meanwhile my first company (the one with the stable and well paid job) was sold 3 times since I left, was integrated in a larger competitor and many of my former work mates were "invited" to look for other pastures...

Bottom line, for me, the investment in education in time, money, family and social life paid handsomely.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Another thought... if you're doing it strictly for the extra money, you may never be happy. I enjoy learning, so while my MS time was a bear (worked 30+ hrs/wk, full time classes, etc.), I thoroughly enjoyed the overall process, and in the end I felt it was worth it. Yes, I make more money with my MS than if I just had my BS. Yes, I went deeper into debt paying for my MS. Yes, I missed out on several years of working full-time with my BS (albeit at a lower salary). but I would definitely do it all again.

If I did not enjoy the learning process, however, it would be a different story. Life is definitely too short to be miserable, and that MS isn't going to relieve the remaining stresses in life all by itself. Something to ponder on...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Kuhladula]

In 3 years, you're going to be 3 years older anyways. Might as well have a PE and an MS while you're at it. You've got nothing to lose except potential.

 

[271828]

After you get past the new grad phase and first few years, compensation is not a simple function of how many years you have and whether you have an MS, so I'd recommend to stop focusing on that.

If you are enjoying the educational process in your MS program and think the extra knowledge and skills will be a benefit, even if intangible, then do it.

Your second paragraph sounds like this isn't the case, though. If it's making you miserable, then forget it. If you have family who are being made miserable by it, then forget it. If you become resentful, burned out, or do a mediocre job in your MS program or a work, the venture might cause more problems than it was worth.

 

[vmjr24]

TI Metallurgist, I am in a similar boat as you. I'm right at about 4 years experience and currently doing my masters with my company paying for it. I went into it not really expecting any pay increase and at this point I think I am past the point where I am any less hireable than someone with a masters. I work at one of the megaconsultants and knew upfront that they wouldn't bump my pay upon receiving my masters.

I did it mainly because, through working a few years, I realized there were some gaps in my knowledge. While I could learn them on the job, I realized that a formal education would probably be a better way to really understand things. I think at a certain experience level, the benefit of the education wears off and who knows how much time you will have in the future, so I think if you were to get the masters now is the best time.

I'm not sure about the aerospace field, but I know in my field (structural/buildings) most people do have masters degrees and it seems to be with good reason. I use almost everything I learned in school and definitely felt the effects of the steeper learning curve until I started going back to school to fill in some of those knowledge gaps.

It's definitely a grind adding that extra 25-30 hours onto your 40+ work week, so I wouldn't bother with that stress if it was only for a few extra bucks or you are not truly getting a useful education out of it. For me, it's truly about the education and applying it directly to my career.

 

[Compositepro]

Good points above. Do not do it if you do not enjoy it. If you enjoy it, do it. An MS is just a certificate, a piece of paper. Imagine putting the same extra effort into your job instead, by reading relevant literature and improving your companies processes in those same hours. It could be far more rewarding. It was for me. I have a BS and had no interest "higher" education, which is mainly targeted at producing future academicians. I started in a process engineering role in a production plant and got into research and development through demonstrated talent and ability (and some luck in the form of opportunity).

Do what you enjoy and you will not work a day in your life. Do something you do not enjoy but are good at, and you will be miserable your whole life, no matter how much you make. Or you can work to make a living and enjoy your life outside of work, like most people.

 

[EnergyProfessional]

I found my graduate degree was more beneficial for "real World" work than my undergraduate education. In addition, you get exposed to people and techniques you would not get exposed to on your own or by chance. I think working and grad school at the same time gives you the best of both worlds. Unlike the "kids" in your class that only go to grad school, you have a practical relation to what you learn. and unlike your BS peers, you also get exposed to more advanced academics and tools.

That all assuming the school is good and not one of those degree mills.

 

[Guest090822]

The BS to MS debate has been going on for decades on this forum. There will always be two answers:

1. The people the got an MS will tell you it's worth it.

2. The people that didn't get an MS will tell you that you don't need it.

 

[EnergyProfessional]

The Rick109: but the people that actually have the MS degree are the only ones that can talk about it with actual knowledge. They know their situation before they had the MS, and what happened due to the MS degree.

The people that only have the BS can't tell since they only know the version without MS. One could argue they regret not doing the MS and now have to justify how that was a good decision. The same argument is used by people who don't go to college to begin with, or by people who drop out of high school. They also argue how their lower level of education actually is better.
Obviously nowadays with access to all information you could teach yourself a lot of things and get to the level of an MS on your own. but at a good school, it is just easier to do for the majority of people.

Yes, I know, Bill Gates didn't even have a BS degree and did fine. And there is at least one person with a PhD that is an actual idiot in real life. But for the overall population more education = more success. Money =/= success. I didn't get a promotion or raise with my ME degree, and knew that, but I'm still glad I did it and became a better engineer. But if you (unlike me) work in private industry, you most likely get paid more if your actual work performance matches the added knowledge.

I will always encourage people to strive upward and attend a good school. People already can come up with reasons not to do it - they don't need us to come up with excuses to not do the hard work.

 

[Guest090822]

Energy Professional - take a chill pill. It also appears you have proven my point. You obviously have an MS.

 

[geotechguy1]

A masters degree is one way to gain knowledge and expertise, as is self-study and experience. In either case how you apply your expertise in practice (i.e., producing high quality work, having a good reputation with your peers) is equally or more important.

One thing I would say is that a masters degree makes it easier to go into a new company and have peers think of you as a technical person, whereas I've found in the self study / experience case it's more effective to be in one place for longer and build your reputation.

 

[vmjr24]

TheRick109 and EnergyProfessional are both correct. A masters is worth it for some and not for others. Ultimately it is a decision that should be based on an individual's circumstances. OP needs to do their own soul searching, maybe considering what is said on this thread or maybe not, on what a masters does for them and if it's worth the blood, sweat, tears, and money.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

The BS to MS debate has been going on for decades on this forum. There will always be two answers:
1. The people the got an MS will tell you it's worth it.
2. The people that didn't get an MS will tell you that you don't need it.

Energy Professional - take a chill pill. It also appears you have proven my point. You obviously have an MS.

Perhaps you should go back and read my post before jumping on EnergyProfessional's back "just because he has an MS".

Yes, I have an MS... but it was only because I enjoyed learning that I was willing to slog through it. Had that not been the case, I would not have gone the MS route (and been content with a reduced average salary).

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[EnergyProfessional]

the Rick109: I have an ME (Master of Engineering) form an accredited US university. I studied for ME while working full time, which was fun to go to classes in the middle of the day since that is tailored to people who work as grad students for a professor, and not for regular engineers. And I have a PE license in my state. And I have a German "Diplom Ingenieur" degree. So I don't even have a BS degree

If nothing else, I can talk about how things were before grad school, and after. Money-wise there was exactly zero difference since our job descriptions (government) don't acknowledge any graduate degrees. But knowledge-wise there is a big difference since I was exposed to methods, people and sources I would not have discovered myself. So from a monetary point for me it was useless. But I don't live for money. I assume if I ever want to change jobs it would be helpful, though. I also got an HVAC-qualifier license in my state (similar to a Plumbing or electrician master license, but for HVAC) - not to get $, but to challenge myself and just in case I ever need to change careers. I figured it is easier to pass tests when I'm young than later when I'm older.

Ultimately everyone has to decide for themselves. Realize that you learn for yourself, not your for boss, your career, or your professor. Back in elementary school a teacher once said we don't do the homework for him, but for ourselves - and he was right. There is nothing wrong with people not having higher degrees. But I object to people with lower degrees trying to hold other people back and discourage them to also not get a higher degree. You should encourage people to strive. Always try to do more.

 

[IRstuff]

I think that someone with the "knack" ala Dilbert, probably will make more money that someone who get an MS simply because they thought it was going to be financially rewarding. Obvs, only a BS here ;-)

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[GregLocock]

I got one for 'free' with my degree, never bothered filling in the paperwork.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[CWB1]

1. The people the got an MS will tell you it's worth it.

I’m honestly struggling to think of someone outside of academia and govt that I have heard say that. I’m sure there’s at least one, but the general consensus shares my experience that recouping the cost is impossible so it’s best to allow an employer pay for it. Going a step further, several MS’ and most every Phd I know actually advise against advanced degrees for those in private industry bc they feel their career prospects and income severely limited by them.

The best relevant advice I received was that if you’re looking to deepen your knowledge to become an expert in a specific niche then find an employer with a modern lab. If you want to broaden your knowledge base to become a Jack of all trades then pursue an advanced degree. IME the key to income is ability, employers care more about your depth within niches relevant to them, not that you took an eight more introductory courses irrelevant to your dayjob.

Signed, a perpetual student who enjoys academi after hours.

 

[Guest090822]

For the record - I never took a side. I simply pointed out that this topic has been debated for 20 years on this formum and I gave the two answers that always seemingly come out of the debate. I could care less either way - just wanted to save the OP a bunch of unhelpful reading since that’s what this debate always turns into.