propane evaporator/intercooler 1

[FoMoCoMoFo]

hi new to this site, I like running propane but i dont like wasting all that energy -latent heat cooling my coolant.I,m dreaming of using an auto A/C evaporator coil or something like that instead of a vaporizor. mount it in the air inlet behind the filter,give it a condensate drain tube like an A/C box and chill my inlet air.i think i could build it but not sure how big it would need to be.The coldest temp.i start at is just below freezing. is this possible ? been done ? THANKS

 

[dcasto]

You could, but you better design a system to kick in or kick out if the evaporator gets a leak. Can we say zoom zoom zoom or flood and die, boom.

 

[Lou Scannon]

If I understand what you're getting at the ideal solution for you is liquid propane injection.

 

[FoMoCoMoFo]

I would try to avoid leaks, but if i had to have one into the inlet air might be a good place for it because it would go rich & die. Liquid injection was was my first thought, I got into this site looking for info on it and found mostly discouraging words hence the intercooler. if you have any helpful info on inj.i would love to hear about it. 460cid w OHG X-450 carb.by the way thank you all.

 

[rdd48856]

I don't know where are you, but in Europe there are two LPI systems being sold since 3 or 4 years ago.

If you understand French you can read here what people have to say about it:

http://forum.aceboard.net/879-3295-94420-0-Comparatif-injection-liquide-injection-gazeuse.htm

Forget the intercooler, you need a very fine temperature control to avoid ice on it....

 

[FoMoCoMoFo]

Thanks for the link to Le Forum, looks like interesting stuff and you get to post a funny pic. but i'm afraid i dont read french well enough to grasp the finer points in the debate. i,m in the mountains of Arizona U.S. that i can read anything at all is remarkable. icing is an issue, i imagine it might be a problem with LPI as well if it were throttle body type. Oh well if its been in Europe 3 or4 years can the U.S. be far behind ? Thanks again.

 

[rdd48856]

It's not throttle body but ice is still a problem, solved by pointing the jet to the inlet valve...biggest problem is maintenance of the pump...you need to empty the tank each 100000Km.

 

[turbocohen]

Vialle solved the pump issues a while back. Liquid lpi systems offer slightly improved VE due to inlet charge cooling and valve wear is considerably reduced.. comparable to gasoline engines. There are hundreds of canadian chrysler vans that accumulated +400,00km without engine failures using their own design limited production LPi. The walbro pumps were never up to par and the lack of fuel additives caused numerous deposit related problems.
I am still driving a 1996 Dodge dakota with the same system used in the vans and it is showing no signs of deterioration. But the walbro pumps are way inadequate and the screens loadup sometimes.

0-60 against an identical gasoline dakota with same rear end etc and its no contest even with the vans heavier conformable fuel tank strapped into the bed.

 

[marcdeluca]

Propane has only 1/5 the latent heat of vaporization of water, so you won't get as much out of it as you think. I have considered doing this on my diesels that have propane injection. I think I may try wrapping the intercooler pipe between the cooler and the intake with copper tubing and insulate it and see how it does using a small circulator pump.

 

[rdd48856]

marcdeluca you should use LPI...by a correct placement of the injectors you could lower HC emissions...

 

[marcdeluca]

rdd48856,
Do you mean inject liquid propane into the intake or into the cylinder? If you mean the cylinder, how would I go about doing that? I currently use a vaporizer/regulator to let the engine suck the fuel in between the air cleaner and the turbo.

 

[turbocohen]

0.2 RLHV? got data?

Port injected liquid LP is old news.. Workd like a charm. Here is some good reading.

http://www.naftc.wvu.edu/technical/indepth/LPG/LPG.html

 

[turbocohen]

here is another good one

http://www.sfitechnologies.com/uploads/Environmenta_Report.pdf

 

[marcdeluca]

water LHV is 970 btu/lb, propane is 184 btu/lb. about 5.25:1. I know that port injected liquid propane injection is available for gasoline engines, but the only one I have heard of for diesels is the Cummins Westport. It is direct cylinder injection, and probably really expensive. Mine is simple and effective, and saves me around 3¢/mi at current prices for lp and #2.

 

[FoMoCoMoFo]

"Theheat of vaporization of gasoline helps to decrease the temperature of mixture, producing the dense mixtures. Although propane and methane have higher heat of vaporization value" hey guys, the above is from the link turbocohen provided comparing propane LHV. to gasoline (the only other fuel i use) as opposed to water. whatever it is its worth going after,its the reason turbocohen's dakota out performs a comparable truck on gas when most of what you hear and read says you lose power even if you raise comp.and otherwise optimize the engine. Oh and its FREE!