Proper mentoring for structural

[shacked]

Just curious as to the experiences that other structural engineers have had during their first 4 or 5 years out of school related to the mentoring or lack of.

I have been out of school for 4 years now and I am curious how my experiences compare to others, as well as the company that you worked for at the time.

 

[apsix]

My first 2 years was under the direction of an experienced practical engineer, but theory was not his strong point.
I then had 5 years under an engineer very good at theory (member of BS & EC code committees and also lectured) and adequate on the practical side.

All in all a very good grounding, I am thankful for both.

What's your experience shacked?

 

[abusementpark]

I've had some pretty good mentoring at my first job out of school. The engineers I work for have done a good job of instilling in me a practical mindset to structural engineering, which generally goes against your instincts as your come out of school.

However, I have also learned a lot on my own from industry magazine publications and from regular perusal of this board. Also, when you get a masters like I did, your theoretical side becomes pretty strong from that experience. While there a lot theoretical things I still wish I had a grasp of, the practical side is where I still need the most work.

 

[Lion06]

I've been at my job for just under 4 years. This is my first engineering job out of college. I love the job and the work we do, but I do feel that the mentoring process is lacking. In my first 3 years, I worked mostly with engineers with less than 5 years of experience, so they were still learning and being mentored (hopefully), too. I'm just now working with the more senior engineer, but that is only because our staff is really lean. Even with that, the mentoring is not really there, because he's so busy working with everyone else and doing his own work, too.

This is one place where the medical profession is head and shoulders above engineering (IMO), although I don't know what a medical residency is like, so.........

 

[shacked]

Apsix, I am curious if the companies that you worked for during those times were small or large companies?

As for me I have been working for small structural engineering offices for the past 4 years. From 2 to 4 people total in the company. Needless to say there hasen't been a lot of time, in my opinion, to devote to proper mentoring.

My current boss is the owner and is very practical engineer with approximately 15 years experience. So far there has never realy been a time when he has sat down with me and went over a project that I have done and discussed the mistakes that I have made, the corrections and why these corrections should be done.

There have been times that he has reviewed details of mine then corrected them, but when I asked why he seems to get mad and never realy explains why, except only to add,"it is stronger this way."

I think he gets mad when I question why he does something a certian way. I do this to understand the principles behind why he designes something the way he does so that I can apply the same thinking another time if the situation is different.

I guess what I realy wanted to know, is how the mentoring was accomplished?

Did you actually sit down with your mentor (boss) and discuss the theory and or why a certian detail is the best for a specific situation? Was there a freedom that you felt to question why he detailed or designed something the way he did? Not like you are questioning his ability, just curious as to what his thought process was.

 

[Lion06]

I never hesitate to question why someone detailed something a certain way if the reason isn't apparent to me.

If I ever felt like I was being given a hard time for doing that or asking questions, I would look to move on asap! You can't be an independent thinking, competent engineer by being a yes-man that doesn't ask questions.

I don't think that "because it's stronger this way" is a reasonable response to your question of why he likes the detail. I understand that you can't always put your finger on why you like one detail over another when they both work, but at least own it and say, "I don't know, this just "feels" better to me". When I'm asked to change a detail it's typically because of constructability or cost concerns. I always ask why, and if I were given a "just because" response, I honestly would not accept that and I would continue to ask until I get a response (without being obnoxious, of course).

 

[ash060]

I also did not have much mentoring coming out of school. At my first job I was at a middle size structural company with about 20 engineers.

I received almost no mentoring, it was trial by fire. I purchase many books over this period and taught myself as much as I could. I picked up a few things about detailing and setting up drawings, practical things, but not much in the way of design.

I decided to leave when I was told there was no such thing as at-rest pressure in soils by my manager.

My next boss ended up being one of the best engineers I have ever met. He thaught me how to really think like an engineer. At the end of every project he would review my drawings until we came to a consensus that everything was as it should be. Top notch engineer.

But I was laid off due to lack of work and had to move on. I am glad that I got to work with such a good engineer.

 

[kelowna]

No mentoring whatsoever. Maybe that is the reason I like to do it as much as I can with fresh graduates

 

[kelowna]

Mentoring I mean!

 

[EQguys]

I am at my very first job since last 1.5 years and I couldn't have asked for more as far as mentoring goes. I report directly to the senior structural engineer who has 35 years experience. Not only he is good at what he does, but also even to this day, keeps up with the new upcoming technology in civil engineering industry. He is also a very good mentor and constantly reminds me of the codes to follow, books to read and to be meticulous in designs.

"Does the man make the journey or does the journey make the man" - Mark Twain

 

[calguy07]

Mentoring?? What's that??

 

[slickdeals]

I have been working for the last 4.5 years and initially I felt the mentoring was okay. But it could be because I was fresh out of school and was learning a lot more on the practical side of things.

I was thrown in on complicated projects and had to figure out a lot of things on my own. I feel that I learned a lot of things just by being thrown at the far end, but I sure wish I had someone to fall back to ask "why".

Like many others here, I used these forums extensively to get the answers to "why". I really wish there was more mentoring.

Any takers for being mentors in this group of structural engineers?

 

[rowingengineer]

Have to say it have been a while since I was on the side of being mentored, so I really can't say to much, but I had 9-10 people I would consider had an influence on my engineering abilities. Only 4 of these were at companies I have worked. I asked questions of products technical departments, program developers, local experts, builders, subcontractors and a few people on line. When people write an article and include there email address, if you don’t understand what they have written email them, normally they are helpful.

However I will now give you a flip side, from a mentor position I find young engineers refuse to study up outside of work or spend the time researching the subject before asking the question. I also find problems with young engineers wanting to use the computer for everything. Also some interns want the full answer not just a reference they can read. This is not mentoring to me, I expect and require my interns to do hand cals, before using a computer to check the results. I expect and require my interns to do at least 150-300hrs a year of extra study, note this means about 3-4 hrs a week bare minimum. I expect my interns to ask products technical departments & program developers questions about there products.

If you can say you do all these things you will find that your mentoring becomes almost unrequired.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that they like it

 

[asixth]

I was so disappointed with the quality of mentoring that I received as a graduate that I would say I have been self-taught. The best quality mentoring I received would be on this forum. This lack of quality mentoring did slow down the progression of my career somewhat. It has also put me offside with some senior staff because of the way "I call it how I see it". I did have the responsibility of mentoring a junior staff member (more junior than myself) before it was decided that I need to concentrate on the quality of my on work first.

Like SEIT and RE mentioned above, don't be afraid to question something if you don't think it is the best solution. The one answer I would never accept as a mentoree was "it will work because that's the way it's always been done" or "it will work because it will work". Both those answers are cop-outs.

A lack of mentoring resulted in me spending the majority of my weekends going through built design drawings in the office and understanding what each element is doing and how it needs to be designed.

I am of the belief that graduate engineers need good quality mentoring.

 

[FeX32]

"Maybe that is the reason I like to do it as much as I can with fresh graduates"
You are talking about the nurses right?


Fe

 

[Ron]

Had almost no technical mentoring. I was an experiment in the company I worked for....the only structural guy in a firm of geotechnical engineers with some materials engineers. Got some materials mentoring from other offices (it was a large firm), but mostly trial by fire....was forced to learn a lot on my own and look long and hard before I opened my mouth. As a result I got to be exposed to so many things I would have never seen in a structural firm...I became a certified welding inspector, I got certified ASNT Level III in radiography, I sampled and tested soils, concrete, steel, wood, plastics, roofing, and composites. I learned pavement analysis and nondestructive testing. I did many triaxial and consolidation tests on soils, not to mention the hundreds of classification index tests....

All of these experiences gave me opportunities to learn. I got to see the designs implemented in construction. I saw what worked and what didn't. I worked in fab shops and in the field. I got to practice my analysis and design as well, almost all of which got reviewed and critiqued by outside sources.

College was only a small stepping stone....my education began and continues with the constant interfacing of the theoretical and practical aspects of engineering, and has crossed the disciplines of structural, civil, geotechnical, materials and mechanical. The sparkies won't let me touch anything!!

As RE noted, I too have been in a position of mentoring for many years. I enjoy it, but sometimes have seen the same things he mentioned...young engineers not willing to put the extra effort into their careers and much too much dependence on calculation and computing....If you can't get an idea of what the answer should be (ballpark) in your head, you'll have no groundtruthing of your calculations. It's OK to be a little geeky at times...after all, we're engineers.

Slickdeals and Asixth....you can get a lot from these forums. You get to learn to separate the wheat and chaff, with help from the best peer review system you'll find anywhere.

Which way did the nurses go?

 

[Bkerila]

I had a great mentor who was about 10 years ahead of me on the same career path I wanted to follow. I think I've been emulating my earliest mentors throughout my career and trying hard to do as least as good a job with the up and coming engineers. So much of what you need to know to do your job well is stuff you learn after school. Either company/industry specific or non-engineering soft skills. Really the only way to learn that is through mentoring. Pay it Forward!

 

[kelowna]

So all of us agree about the need to mentor young engineess. The question I would like to ask you now is:
What is good mentoring?

In my particular case I find that the technical support is only a small part of it. Most times is about being there for support whenever they need it, be a sounding board for their ideas or doubts and keep an eye on them to make sure they are going on the right direction and correct direction (nicely and explaining why) when they start to veer off.

Two questions that I pose to them and usually puzzle them, 'What do you think?' (when they come asking for help) and 'What did you learn today?'(after a particular challenging or difficult day). Answers are amusing.

Oppinions?

 

[asixth]

"What do you think"- They should have thought about how to solve the problem before asking the question. Admittedly I asked many questions when I was a graduate, and a lot of the time I already knew the answer before I asked it. I just wanted to get a second opinion. Nowadays, I no longer ask for advice but more tell my senior engineer what I am going to do. If they want me to do it another way they need to convince me that it is a better way of doing things. If it takes longer than 30 seconds to convince me, then it is not a very convincing argument.

"What did you learn today"- Interesting question, the way I approach work is to try a continue to learn new things. I don't ever want to get myself into a rut of always doing the same thing the same way and never exploring new approaches. They way I see it, if you try something new and it doesn't come off, it may waste 20 minutes. But what happens if your sitting on a goldmine and you find something that can double your productivity.

What I learnt today. I just sat through a two-hour training seminar on wave loading and I took away what the limiting SPT value is for driving different types of piles.