Proper specification of a Plate 5

[VAStrEngr]

We are having an internal debate about how to "correctly" specify a steel plate on drawings. We have conflicting procedures based on fabricating, design, or drafting backgrounds.

width(in) x thickness (in) x length (ft-in)

short dim(in) x thickness (in) x long dim(ft-in)

thickness (in) x width (in) x long dim (in)

thickness (in) x width (in) x long dim (ft-in)

Does anyone have a definitive reference?

 

[slickdeals]

I was taught to use this by my senior engineers, don't know if this has a reference somewhere.
thickness (in) x width (in) x long dim (ft-in)

 

[nutte]

I've also been taught as slickdeals. There are no units on the thickness and width, but there are on the length.

PL 1/2 x 12 x 1'-0"

PL 1 x 4 x 0'-8"

 

[dcarr82775]

I do the same as slickdeals and nutte

 

[steele6707]

A pdf file is attached from AISC "Detailing for Steel Construction" 1983. The use of computers has probably modified some of the symbols that are used.

 

[slickdeals]

Excellent document steele6707. Reinforces what I was taught.

 

[aswierski]

I, also, was taught the same way as Nutte and slickdeals. That would be an excellent name for a porno, btw...

 

[JAE]

Yep

 

[VAStrEngr]

Interesting. While the way that is agreed upon by everyon here is in fact the way that I have seen it done in other design firms, I personally came up through a fabricator and was adamantly taught short(in)x thickness (in)x long (ft-in). Consquently, I am looking at a drafting manual from the 80's which follows this same format as well. Perhaps I am simply outdated?

 

[JAE]

VAStrEngr - yes - outdated.

Here's another document that shows the "old" way vs. the "new" way:

 

[VAStrEngr]

Growing up in the 80-90's I didn't think I would be classified as such so soon. I guess you only know what you have learned...and I learned something new today! Thanks for the documents, very good material.

 

[nutte]

You'll see flat bar called out VA's way: FL (or Bar or something similar) 3 x 1/2 x 0'-8", even in AISC's 2002 Detailing for Steel Construction. So to do it right, you need to know if the piece is cut from plate stock, or if it's coming from bar stock. This is also on JAE's attachment, with the old way and new way being the same.

 

[racookpe1978]

I agree with nutte's comment - and, more important, with the reasaon why their are two legitiamte ways to call out plate.

If it is being cut from a larger plate, you need to put the thickness first. That is what will be pulled from the rack and moved to the cutting and layout table: a 1/2 thick "x by y" sheet of plate steel that will become a smaller piece. Same for metric: 12 mm thick, or 16 mm or whatever defines the source.

If it is being cut from a long flat bar, then the width and thickness matter, but the final length are less important. So it will be cut from a 3 x 1/2 flat bar 20 feet long, or a 4 x 1/4 flat bar 20 feet long, or a 1 x 1/4 flat bar leftover 12 feet long. Regardless, all will be cut into 18 long pieces. Or into 3 inch long pieces.

 

[BAretired]

I can't see how calling it up the wrong way could lead to errors. I also don't see why the flats are called up differently than plates. Why not T x W x L for both?

BA

 

[rscassar]

And plate grade.

 

[a2mfk]

When in doubt, go to AISC and Charlie Carter... Can you believe there is a 3 page article on the subject? Well, there was a pretty long post on this subject and here I am.

Now, getting your junior engineers and CAD people to properly call out things is another matter. I had to resort to a beer tax when a PE would mess up simple steel call outs he would had to donate a buck to our company beer fund.... I think it just ended up that I was getting more free beer and still frustrated.

Charlie says:
"Actually, it should be highlighted
that there is very little, if any, structural
difference between flat bars and
plates. Consequently, plate is becoming
a universally applied term today and a
PL ½ x 4½ x 1’-3”, for example, might
be fabricated from plate or bar stock."

Free PDF, just saved it to my library.

If this link doesn't work just do a search at AISC:

http://www.aisc.org/bookstore/itemRedirector.aspx?id=12882

HTH,
Andrew Kester, PE
Florida

 

[vthomidis]

The most common practice in Europe ( applied by German, French,Italian and other countries' steel mills ) is :

- Plates ( mm ) thickness x width x length
- Flat bars ( mm ) width x thickness x length

In design and drafting width=short dim, length= long dim

That's in metric.

Once in a while you may see some variations, but ..hey you can always understand which dimension is which.

 

[paddingtongreen]

Flat bar was called off that way because it was a rolled shape, it is in the style of other rolled shape names except that thickness is used in lieu of weight. If you could, you always used flat bar because there was less work in the shop, one cut to use the bar instead of three to use the plate.

Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.