Protection Relay or Protective Relay or something else? 1

[521AB]

Is there any commonly accepted formal word to denote the followings:

- Protection Relay or Protectiove Relay or others?
- Relay Engineer, or Power Protection Engineer or Protection Engineer.. what else?
- Operate time or tripping time or operating time or what more?
- Starting signal, start signal or pick-up signal or?

 

[AMBMI]

Well, a quite difficult question!! ;-)

- I feel that "Protective relay" could be more sophisticate. Anyway "Protection relay" is quite common

- I like Protection engineer....

- Both tripping and operating time are quite common.

- I would prefer starting signal ("pick up" signal seems to me to be more for old electromechanical relays...)

 

[rbulsara]

hmmm...never came across starting signal for a relay. Pick-up still makes more sense. There is nothing to be started in the relay, imho.

I would think (not sure) tripping time would include both relay operating time plus the breaker opertating time??

 

[davidbeach]

Protection Engineer, working with protective relays. Relay time plus breaker time = clearing time. Relay pick-up occurs when a measured parameter crosses the setting threshold - exceeds for most parameters, but falls below for 27 and 81U. Start is generally reserved for starting timers after an element has picked up - often used in relation to starting zone 2 and higher timers for distance relays.

 

[ScottyUK]

Agree with David - for once we use similar terminology on both sides of the pond.


----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[521AB]

"Protection Engineer, working with protective relays."
It sounds good, but....should I write this on by business card?

 

[oldfieldguy]

My title has occasionally been "That @&#^!! consultant that installed that $^(#^#! black box that keeps tripping the @#$#% plant off"

old field guy

 

[Eleceng01]

I hear you oldfieldguy! Thanks for the laugh.

 

[capuchi]

to oldfieldguy, i haven't had a good laugh for the last couple of weeks. looks like i'm a nut laughing alone. it's the best medicine!

What's in a name? others would like to glamorize their calling. To me it does not matter.

 

[ScottyUK]

On a business card I would write 'Protection Engineer'. People who work in the industry will know what you do.


----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[slavag]

Hello.
I would like ask several Q's about used terms:
PE, what is this ? protection eng. or principle eng.
What is a difference. Protection eng, status request some additional education, some Lisenced.
Scotty, What is a your status: Chartered EE? Its request some special education? Lisenced?
I aks it becouse we used only one term EE, its all and add with protection specilisation.
I also see some term Protection Technican, what is this?
Thank you for your help.
Regards.
Slava.
About terms: If David and Scotty agree, I havent additional Qs. Now its clear for me.

 

[davidbeach]

PE, as used in the US, is Professional Engineer (licensed by the state); has nothing to do with protection. My business card has PE after my name because I am a PE and has my title as Protection Engineer because that is what I do.

 

[oldfieldguy]

Scotty-

If you write "Protection Engineer" on your card, then you hand it to somebody, and his face lights up, you'll know you're dealing with somebody with at least a passing understanding of what you do. If the demeanor changes to a look of confusion, well, then you've run into somebody belonging to the other 99.98% of the world...

Slava,

"protection engineer" is not the "PE" of professional engineer or principal engineer. In this day, though, there are too many specialty areas under the umbrella of "electrical engineer". I know too any "EE's" who know NOTHING about power systems at the industrial and utility level. They did concentrations on slectronics and microprocessor technology. They're still EE's, though.

A "protection technician" is one who is knowledgeable in the field of installing, commissioning, testing and troubleshooting protective relay systems. The guys I had working for me could be expected to look at drawings and point out incorrect circuits such as CT's and PT's, controls that may not work as per conventional practice and could perform tests on all the components int eh system, from the instrument transformers to the relays and the control circuits associated with them.

Good protection technicians are hard to find. There are a lot of guys out there who can do the "cockbook" tests but they do not do well when things don't work correctly.

It's a tough field.


old field guy

 

[slavag]

David,Thanks a lot for the explanation.
Regards.
Slava

 

[slavag]

Thanks a lot, Old field guy too.
From time to time, Im at not some simpatic situation: Someone give me buisness card and I didnt understand what he do: MSDE, PE and etc..
Thanks again.
Regards.
Slava

 

[521AB]

Protection engineer sounds like you are a "technical body guard".

Also the english word "engineer" is well inflationated, so I have decided to remove it from my card. M SC etc. ... I also prefer to avoid them, because one question is enough to understand who you have in front of you, without business card.

 

[521AB]

In the IEC technical dictionary, regarding tripping time, it is clearly written that the correct word is Operate Time.
Operating time is something else, which has nothing to do with relay protection, and that don't remember.

 

[ScottyUK]

slavag,

Yes, I am a chartered engineer (C.Eng) registered with the UK's Engineering Council. It is broadly the equivalent of the P.E. in the USA, although our government doesn't see the need to license engineers in this country. C.Eng doesn't denote which field of electrical engineering I work in, just that I have reached a certain level of experience and knowledge in my chosen field and have passed certain exams and met certain criteria.

I'm not a protection engineer, but I know the specific types of protection we use within the generation industry pretty well through years of commissioning, maintenance, fixing other people's mistakes, and occasionally some limited design too. On a major design job I will buy in help.

I lack the breadth of knowledge of a true protection engineer - for example I'm less than confident about distance protection although I understand how it works, so you will rarely see me comment on transmission system protection. Pure protection engineers are becoming a very rare breed in the UK, and those that we have are getting old.

OldFieldGuy,

It's the 0.02% that matter - the others won't value what they don't understand, and some fancy title won't cure that problem.


----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[Zogzog]

What do your wives say when someone asks what her husband does? Mine gave up, now she justs makes stuff up.

 

[521AB]

They don't even know what we do .... She doesn't know what I do. I tried to explain her... mission impossible.
The best is this: I come back from work, at home everything is black. My wife is angry and looks at the "box" (the box with the MCB). She says: the problem is in that fu....g box, this fu.....g "lever" that anytime I'll try to pull it up, it comes down again, It doesn't want to staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up! (by pulling up the "lever"....).
Try to tell her that "sometimes", when the relay trips, it is because there is a fault. Now we search for it... .we disconnect all equipments from any plug, then try to pull up. It says.
And she: but now nothing works here!
Ok, one by one we put back everything till the "lever" goes down.
It was the washing machine. It took one half an hour.

Mirror this in your real life: how many times it has happened?