Public vs Private Design and Permitting 1

[martin888888]

Have a question on requirements for private development design. Public design and permitting is pretty straight forwarded as there are design standards and procedures set forth that need to be followed. Private development seeems a little more vauge.

Let say you are designing a Home Depot in the City of Seattle. Do you normally need to follow the utiltiy design standards set forth by the local jurisdictions or does it follow the building code? Does the local jurisdiction normally take ownership over the utilities for maintenance purposes?

 

[dicksewerrat]

They may take over the main lines but the lines to the bldg would stay with the bldg. Main line would be ones built to service a group of bldgs in the development. That said, the fire marshall and underwriters want the water services to their spec not the owners.


Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.

http://WWW.amlinereast.com

 

[DRWeig]

Ask the utility where their ownership stops.

I'm not sure about Seattle. In my area, the utility owns and maintains the transformer, meter, and everything upstream of the tranfsormer for a building like a big-box retailer. The secondary service drop or lateral from the transformer to the main disconnect(s), and of course, everything in the building, belongs to the building owner. However, the building electrical contractor generally installs all the underground raceways for the utility's primary (if applicable) at the time of site preparation, according to utility standards.

Wait and see what others have to say. My geographic experience is limited to a few states in the southeast US.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

 

[DRWeig]

Pardon my bias. I was reminded by dicksewerrat's post that electricity is not the only utility that a building needs.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

 

[bimr]

The design is done in the same manner whether it is public or private. The customer of the utility may be a Home Depot or a municipality. There is no difference.

However, the municipality may be the Owner, the Utility, or the Utility Customer depending on how the government is organized in the particular locale. There may be different Departments of the municipality responsible for different areas.

For electrical codes, there is a separate design code for electric utility distribution systems and the NEC Code is used for the rest of the electrical work.

The difference is mainly in the contruction process and the speed of the project, not so much the basic design. Because the municipal construction process includes public bidding, the design documents are required to be more documented and thorough.

 

[cvg]

?

water and sewer lines on private property are generally handled by the building code and are not maintained by a city

gas, electric lines are public up to the meter and may be in an easement. they are maintained up to the meter

permits are required and standards set by the agency issuing the permits

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Call and ASK!!

 

[bank]

Generally, at least down here, the City or local governing agency owns and maintains water, sanitary, and storm sewers in the public right-of-way or dedicated easements. Design is governed by their criteria.

On private property those utilities are owned and maintained by the property owner. Design on private property is governed by Uniform Building Code. In our office we use the more stringent criteria, as long as cost is not a factor.

 

[martin888888]

Thanks for the replies, another issue is preparing specifications. In 15 years of project a management on the private side I never put together one specification and on the public development side it is the norm and they seem to think its required at all times when simply referring to state agency standard spec suffices at times.

Anyone have any comments on when specs are needed?

 

[bimr]

Most public projects are procured through public bidding. Almost anyone may submit a bid. That is the reason that the bid documents need to be extensive and idiot proof in order to protect the owner from the unscrupulous.

On the private side, the Owner has significantly more leeway in selecting the Contractor and as well as control of the project.

The extent of the specification is dependent on the scope and complexity of the project.

 

[civilman72]

Regarding specs...

As you said Martin, I have found that construction/material related specifications are redundant, often duplicating what is already stated in the local (utility/road/drainage) standards and/or our construction plans.

But the specifications that define "non-construction-related" items such as contract terms, payment terms, insurance requirements, indemnification clauses, etc. are important to the overall bidding and construction process. From my experience when public bids are released, they put all of this information in the bid package.

On private jobs, very often the potential contractors are handed our bid schedule and construction plans and they do not negotiate all of the "non-construction-related" items until the owner selects a contractor - very often the owner uses their attorney and we (the engineer) are not privy to these negotiations.

 

[bimr]

A few more points.

On municipal projects, the specification book is actually the Contract document. The other supporting documents to the Contract such as the contract drawings should be listed in the specification book.

In addition, the standard specifications that you reference are all subject to periodic revisions. What happens if you submit a bid and the standard specification is subsequently revised? If you have the specification in the Contract, there will be no arguements as to what is the latest specification.

The standard specifications that you mention are not published by the particular municipalities and the municipalities have no control over the specifications. The standard specifications may be revised or withdrawn at any time.