Put in a Tough Position 2

[ErickND]

This morning I was put in a tough position and don't know what to do. I am currently working for a consulting engineering firm that hired me last may after I graduated with a BS in Civil Engineering. I obtained this job because I had really good references from a client that they work with a lot. I had done an internship with this client between my junior and senior year in college (the summer before I graduated). The consulting firm I am at has had a long time working relationship with client and we are currently working on several projects for them. This morning my former boss at the client emailed me and told me of a position they have opened up and encouraged me to apply for it. The position would be the exact same thing I currently do at the consultant. I have never been put in a position like this before and I am trying to figure out what would be the most ethical thing to do in this position. I have worked here a little under a year and don't want to just jump ship right away but i would like to explore this opportunity. My current employer has done a lot for me and is even sending me to a week long class to learn a very important software that we use a lot. I am just not sure what I should do. Should I talk to my current boss about it first? Should I call up my former boss and talk about the position first? Is it even ethical to consider this job?

 

[photoengineer]

First of all, don't tell your current employer about your possible job offer. They don't want you to jump ship and you don't want them to know should you not take the other position.

Second, it's not unethical to interview and consider another position unless your employment agreement prohibits it. You are more than likley working at-will, which means either party can terminate your employment as they see fit.

But I would be careful before jumping ship. Moving for a good reason (i.e., more money) can be worth doing but moving for no good reason isn't really wise to do.

Cedar Bluff Engineering

http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

"Should I talk to my current boss about it first?"

No, that is a bad path to go down. In my experience, if you speak with your boss about another job you're considering, the choice to stay at your current company may be taken out of you hands. And if you do stay, you've introduced doubts in their minds about how long you plan on stay, which can impact job responsiblities, pay raiees, etc.

"Is it even ethical to consider this job?"

Absolutely. I don't see any ethic dilemma here at all. Comapnies act in their best interest, you should do the same.

While I think ethically you're free and clear, the one thing I would worry about here would be if your switch could sour the relationship between the companies, which would be bad for both of them and for you.

There is also a distinct possiblity that it isn't in your best interests to move. You say the job is doing the exact same thing. Is it the same thing for more money, better benefits, etc?

I would speak with the former boss abotu the position. First, see if it seems like a good opportunity. Second, ask him if he's worried that you taking the job could affect the relationship between the companies. He may answer "We've decided we won't be working them anymore anyways" or "I'm married to the head guys sister, I can get them to be okay with it".

In my company we have an employee that we hired right from a customer. The companies talked about it and the customer was okay because they liked the idea that we would have an employee that really understood their business.

 

[MikeHalloran]

In days of yore, it would be ethically shaky.
No more.

Jumping ship after less than a year still raises eyebrows among HR weenies, just like in days of yore.

If Former Boss emailed you at work, Current Boss may already know about the feeler.







Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[zdas04]

The comments above are good advice, but I have a little different spin on one point. Leaving your current employer will not "sour the relationship". Companies treat consultants like unwanted foster children. Consultants take it. That is the nature of the business. If a company man blows off your e-mail and voice mail for a year, you take it. When they do eventually need you, you pretend that you aren't mad about them blowing you off.

If you leave your current employer to go to a client, the next thing you'll hear from you current boss is an invitation to lunch at his expense.

If you don't have a contract with a set term then you're free to go. If your contract has a "non-compete" clause, check with a lawyer--mostly those things are not enforceable, and the few places where they can be enforced do not include going from a contractor to the contractor's client (the client is not "competing" for the same clients as the contractor).

You have to remember that a company is not a person. It can't get mad. It can't get even. It can't even get its feelings hurt. It doesn't have a memory. If the people at your current employer get mad, they'll get over it or leave or die (we all do once).

David

 

[MintJulep]

The ethical thing to do is whichever path offers YOU the best overall options.

This would include things like compensation and benefits, opportunity for advancement, opportunity for continued professional development, work environment, security and probably a host of others.

 

[shadow401]

I agree with everyone else. These days people move from company to company all the time and nobody looks down upon it. Sometimes you find a better opportunity and other times your employer decides that they don't need you anymore. I would not think twice about whether it is ethical to switch. Do you worry if it is ethical when you call different insurance companies every year to see if you could get a better rate? As long as you leave on good terms, they would probably hire you again next year if you want to go back.

 

[IRstuff]

There has never been anything unethical about LOOKING. Executing the move is a different matter. But, usually, whatever agreements you had with your current employer concerning retention, tacit or otherwise, are typically only valid for a year.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[IRstuff]

I guess "never" was overly strong; if you were living in the 1600's as a serf or samurai, disloyalty was punishable by death.

Luckily for you, those times are long gone, except for maybe some spy agencies or criminal organizations...

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[rowingengineer]

Sounds like a great problem to have, wouldn't let it keep you up at night. I would only consider the change if there was a reason to, ie more money, better conditions or other.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that they like it

 

[Ron]

ErickND..I agree with others, there is no ethical dilemma here.

In consulting, our engineers often get offers from contractors or others because they see the help that individual could give them at a lower cost.

You are in a very good position that could come out win-win for you and others. First, I would not discuss this with your current boss. No reason to unless you decide to leave.
I would; however, discuss this with the offering company in this manner (assuming you have no compelling reason to make the change other than to maintain a prior relationship)...tell them you sincerely appreciate the offer. It is very flattering. You have been at your current company for less than year and you feel that you need to honor their confidence in you by staying with them for a while longer, at least. Tell them that you hope that in declining the offer it will not jeopardize your personal or professional relationship with them (it won't) and that perhaps you can both re-visit the situation in the future.

This will raise your stature in the offering company's eyes and since you have not discussed it with your current boss, will not have a detrimental effect on your present position. You can then work doing what you like in your present company and continue to build that relationship with the offering company, both of which will help you, your company, and the offering company.

Good luck.

Ron

 

[oneintheeye]

hear what they have to say.your company will shaft you if they need to or think they can get away with it. Do whats best for you

 

[photoengineer]

The reason you keep working at your current company is because of good pay and benefits, and that you have the opportunity to use your skills.

The reason that the company keeps you is that you accomplish enough work each day they don't have a reason to let you go.

If the new company offers you sufficent salary / benefits that make it worthwhile, you move.

If you stop getting enough work done that your boss wants to replace you, he lays you off and finds someone to do you work instead.

Cedar Bluff Engineering

http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

 

[BillBirch]

Consider this - perhaps your client has had you in mind for a while, not having a position for a graduate at the time, had been instrumental in you getting a position within view while you gained experience - like remote probation?

In the scheme of things, the client is in control, so you should not be too worried about jumping ship. I would, however ask your client if there are any contractual issues with the consultant that would prevent you being poached.

As a word of warning, woorking for a client often takes you further from the workplace where you need the valuable experience. Be careful that you don't end up as a project or "meetings" engineer, taking and distributing minutes of meetings.

 

[desertfox]

hi ErickND

I agree its a difficult position particularly if you do move because you might have to deal with the company you just left, that said there is nothing wrong in applying or even going for the interview.
However before you go for the interview consider whether you really want to change jobs and if your offered the new job and turn it down what the implications might be.
How difficult would it be for someone to let slip your looking for a new job and attended an interview at one of your current companies clients.
If your happy where you are I would be tempted to stay put, you have very little working experience and I think it looks better on a CV if you can show 2 or 3 years with a company before moving on.
If your not sure whether you want to move then something that might help is make a list of pro's and con's for each company and see which comes out the best.

desertfox

 

[patprimmer]

As an employer in the past, if I were to lose good staff with whom I had a good relationship, I was always pleased if they went to a client or potential client as if handled correctly it helped build a very good relationship with the client. I doubt most see it that way, but it is a line of thought that you might explore, depending on your relationship with your current boss and his relationship at the firm that approached you.

Ethically, you have every right to seek employment to your best advantage just as they will seek employees to their best advantage.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[JAE]

I agree with the others above - no ethical concerns.

You have TWO paths to go here:

1. Investigate the new position, ask a lot of questions, consult your chrystal ball (oh - that's right they don't exist)....peer into the future as you are able and chart which choice is best for you...take your pick, inform the appropriate persons of your choice...depending on your choice, you may not ever even tell your current boss of the issue.

OR

2. Investigate the new position...etc. Then, if you cannot make up your mind because of uncertainties about your current job status, reveal to your current boss your situation and ask if he can "clarify" it for you. This might mean a counter-offer, better job position, etc.

Choice 2 above is fraught with danger, damage, and disease...well, maybe not disease. Usually item 1 is the best.

 

[controlnovice]

Be careful of a "no robbing" policy.

Usually an agreement between companies that says one can't 'steal' employees away from another. This is usually done between company and client (or contractor)and written in contracts, so that a client can not 'steal' people away from a contractor after a project, etc....

There is a more formal name for this process. Just can't think of it on Monday morning.

______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

 

[patprimmer]

I would have thought a no poaching policy and/or contract condition would be unfairly restricting the employees right to sell his service and depending on where you are, may well be illegal and unenforceable.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[RoyTyrell]

There are tons of engineers out there looking for work. Guys with P.E's and lots of experience - particularly in the civil/water field. good lord, they are everywhere.No offense, but I doubt your current employer would get too bent out of shape if you left. You would be very easily replaced.