Qualifications for Design Calculations

[MarlaMike]

Hi

My company produces weldoflanges and have a program that does the basic calcs to asme b31.3. The program is third party verified and the company holds a Type approval.

My question is we have two engineers operating the programs and poducing the calcs by entering pre-determined data. Do these engineers need to be degree qualified to do these calcs, both have hnc qualifications and many years experience of the product.

Mike

 

[JStephen]

Where are you located? And who is thinking they need to be qualified?

If they are practicing engineering and are not exempt, they would need to be licensed under state licensing laws...if you're in the US. Then they wouldn't be "degreed" engineers, they'd be licensed engineers.

 

[JohnBreen]

Perhaps more to the point if the product is not listed in Table 326.1 then you better read paragraph 307. "Running a computer program" won't qualify unlisted components per B31.3. Rigorous FEA analyses would be the minimum computer based qualification allowed by B31.3. Otherwise, you will be looking at a proof testing program. If your non-degreed "engineers" are in fact qualified to be doing "engineering" as defined by law, then they would have no trouble passing a P.E. examination (well, maybe after a refresher course).

 

[Cockroach]

There are two schools of thought:
1) Need anyone be an engineer that performs technical calculations?
2) What are the liabilities assumed in event of catastrophic failure?
Obviously not everyone doing technical work is an engineer; that would be impractical and pose serious limitations to an industry. Typically if the work performed by these individuals is for public usage, then there may be an issue depending on exact work involved. "Engineering Technologists" are not "engineers" but they are qualified to perform some types of work if they become certified. That would be governed by your state/provincial authority.

On the other hand, evaluate your risk potential and in the event you would incur a legal liability, then the answer is obvious, Professional Engineer all the way. This would not absolve the company of a suit, but it would open the door for civil action against the Professional Engineer under terms of unskilled practice, unprofessional conduct or behaviors unbecoming (work offered by a set of peers under similar circumstances).

Good luck, you have a tough situation.

Kenneth J Hueston, PEng
Principal
Sturni-Hueston Engineering Inc
Edmonton, Alberta Canada

 

[cvg]

a degree does not qualify an engineer, a license does. Unlicensed engineers are not qualified to practice engineering without the supervision of a qualified (read licensed) engineer.

 

[stanier]

I think that the original posting has come from the UK where the licensing of engineers is not required. Anyone can call themselves an engineer, perform calculations and undertake work in these fields.

The reference to HNC qualification is the Higher National Certificate. This is obtained by going to technical college one day a week for two years. The four subjects would be to a degree level but not enough to get membership of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers.

Its a bitter complaint at this time that professional engineers, ie those who are members of an institution, become chartered (elected by their peers) and have to undertake professional engineering development, have no rights to restrict unqualified people from practising engineering. Its the same in many parts of the world.

 

[JStephen]

With the licensing laws in the US, many people that do engineering are exempt from engineering registration requirements. So the situation is not altogether fixed by having those requirements. The licensing laws are primarily aimed at those who offer engineering services to the public. If you work for a manufacturer designing a product, that is generally exempt. Things that a company does for itself are generally exempt. If the person is exempt, there are no requirements as to the level of expertise required in order to do a job.

There was a recent post in the PV forum where someone mentioned that ASME Sect. VIII Division 2 required a PE both to specify the vessel requirements and to design the vessel. The point being, that this was spelled out in the ASME code, even if not required by state laws. But this kind of situation is rather unusual.

 

[MarlaMike]

Thanks for all the comments Guys, we are indeed based in the UK. No license is applicable and like what others have said anyone can call themselves an engineer. However in this case we own the patent to this product and have done for 20 years or more so the design has been pretty much well tested and verified and used without problem. Over the years we have lost the older engineers and design people like everyone else, we are left with younger people who have been trained over the years to continue the program.
We are only doing area replacement calculations on some applications and the program does all this. we use ANSI B16.5 and ASME B31.3 for data.

I guess the answer is down to risk as was stated earlier

Mike

 

[swainw]

On a practical note: Having a license or not does not substitute for experience. A mention was made to FEA or proof testing program. The main concern would be to rely soley on a computer program over sound practical engineering. This seems to be an accident waiting to happen.

I work in the US, but also with a UK firm. As such am familiar with the HNC/HND programs. Technical capability resides in many forms. But,... and this is a big but, the norms of engineering practice is to be able to understand the physical phenomena of a design to determine the correct course of analytical or testing program to pursue.

The methods of analysis and testing are aimed at conclusively and with confidence reach a level of physical understanding with the device such that the safety factors are met, the performance characteristics are known, the tolerances as a result of manufacturing variability are included in the assessment, etc. etc.

To do any less and to rely on a computer program makes me especially nervous that a lot of basic engineering factors will be missed.

You should probably find an older, seasoned engineer that can walk through your entire design process to see if your HNC staff, plus management, plus other supporting persons can meet the criteria of "due dilligence" to ensuring the product is designed and manufactured safely.

Cheers and Good Luck,
Bill


Bill Swain
Ultra Electronics Precison Air Systems
Technical Coordination Manager-US Programs
swainw@asme.org