Question about jobs in the power industry.

[EEak96]

I am a third year EE student thinking about specializing in power, but I have some reservations. People tell me that most jobs in the industry are boring, repetitive, and lack any intellectual stimulation. I have seen only a few engineers who work in the utilities that actively enjoy their jobs. I am not saying this is the case at all, it's just the opinion that I have been most exposed to. My question is, do you enjoy your job and what do you do? Also, is it true that the salary is below average compared with other EE jobs? I live in Canada, and one of the reasons I am thinking about pursuing power is because of the huge demand for competent power system engineers. I also find the material interesting, but I find almost every part of EE interesting with the exception of pure software.

If I do decide to do power, I feel that protection and controls or planning are the most interesting. If I don't do power I might do RF because I really like learning about electromagnetics and antenna design, but the downside is that industry doesn't have as many jobs as power and a masters is almost certainly required. Would it be a good plan to take power courses, get a job in power and then get a masters in RF? Do the two areas complement eachother?

 

[davidbeach]

Never a dull moment in Protection, particularly if you're involved in Protection Operations.

 

[EEak96]

What specific duties do you do in protection, and what is protection Operations? Also, what is the salary like?

 

[DistCoop]

I was told the same thing in school, and begrudgingly took an internship at a consulting firm serving the power industry. I quickly found out it's actually a very enjoyable field, and one that provides as much intellectual stimulation as any other job out there. I've been in the power/utility industry for 8 years now and intend to stay here.

I think that protection and power quality are my most enjoyed areas.

If I had one complaint about the industry, it's that I can't play with circuits and build things like you can in some other industries. A capacitor as large as I am just won't fit on my desk. That's too bad, but it's otherwise very fun.

The two areas do compliment each other. At my company and many similar consulting firms, there is a power group and a communications group. Lots of communicating between equipment in utilities.

I think power is somewhat unique in that you get some exposure to many different "sub disciplines" of EE. I'm on the power side of things primarily, but I also see digital logic (protection), communications (SCADA), power electronics (DG inverters), analog (measuring instruments), and computers/programming (developing quick calculators and tools).

I don't know that you'll be doing antenna design or anything similar... I'd say primarily propagation studies and system integration. I'm not as familiar with the communications people though.

 

[EEak96]

@DistCoop

What is working like in a consulting company. What kinds of tasks do you do? Is it mostly design work, analysis, meeting with clients, etc. ? Does protection use a lot of physics and electrical theory, or is it mainly a niche knowledge that you only attain once you start working? What is the typical salary?

 

[davidbeach]

Protection operations is dealing with the analysis of relay operations; particularly when there was more than just a simple trip and reclose. The stuff that makes for bad days for the folk running the system can make for some very interesting problem solving for the protection operations folk.

 

[ScottyUK]

Generation is an interesting part of the industry. I've worked in operational and consulting roles. As David said, rarely is there a quiet day. Many times I've gone home absolutely shattered but smiling and with a sense of achievement. Days can run the range from technically challenging, physically demanding, exhausting, exhilarating, often rewarding, sometimes heart-breaking. You'll note that 'boring' isn't on that list.

Power plants cover pretty much the full electrical engineering spectrum from instrumentation, computing, protection, DCS and automation, switchgear, transformers, motors, generators, turbine controls, high voltage plant, and you get a lot of crossover into more esoteric stuff like machine diagnostics and performance engineering.

 

[DistCoop]

What you do depends on your role. I personally am more planning, operations, analysis. Some guys do nothing but line or substation design.

Protection is rooted in physics of course. You gotta know how the electrons want to move. But it's fairly niche. It seems like most dedicated protection engineers are very experienced, or are the young crop starting out. Not as much middle ground as you'd see with other groups (in my experience).

I myself am not a dedicated protection engineer... The protection I do is a little more basic. Still fun and challenging, but not what a transmission protection engineer will see. Being a consultant ID say I'm more a generalist than a specialist (e.g. I'll follow what davidbeach is saying when he tells me about his job, but I'm not experienced enough perhaps to do it myself).

Salary... Well as a consultant for distribution utilities in the midwest, I started low 50s. 8 years later I'm high 80s.

 

[stevenal]

I would say power and RF are complementary. In the utility I work for, we use RF for our two way radio system, to read and disconnect meters, to control distribution regulators and reclosers, and to back up the fiber that communicates with our substations. I think your plan has merit.

 

[piterpol]

I found this SEL paper useful for your needs.

 

[EEak96]

Piterpol,in that link it says that the power and energy sector of electrical engineering is the lowest payed among the other sectors such as communications, solid state, software, etc. Why is the salary so low when the demand is so high?

 

[ScottyUK]

From a UK perspective it's a historical problem. Personnel departments don't want to give large pay rises to a narrow industry sector which outstrips the cost of living and perhaps also outstrips those given to their wider organisations. In the days of the nationalised industries the headline salary might not have been exceptional but the overall benefits package including the very generous pension scheme made up a lot of the shortfall. As the industry was de-nationalised in the late 1980's and early 1990's the value of the benefits dropped away as pension provision was reduced, but market forces determined that salaries didn't need to improve to compensate in a market which was flooded with experienced labour as the bloated nationalised industries de-manned to a sustainable level. At this point in time I think the salary gap probably reached its widest point.

The salary gap has closed considerably since I was a new grad, an improvement driven by a dwindling labour pool to recruit from and competetion from other employers. The shrinking labour pool is itself a legacy of the under-recruitment in the decade post-privatisation, resulting in an entire generation being largely absent from the industry. Today I suggest that power isn't lagging far behind the other disciplines in terms of salary and has overtaken many. Specialist roles such as protection and rotating plant are attracting quite a premium in the UK as companies try to keep their employees from being poached by their competitors.

 

[stevenal]

The 2008 SEL paper is a bit dated. More current information should be available from IEEE. I do think there may be a tradeoff between the boom/bust of electronics versus the somewhat higher security provided by an electric utility.

 

[EEak96]

It looks like it is still at the bottom based on the 2015 IEEE salary survey.

 

[crshears]

You have to decide how much weight to give to various factors; I'll mention two.

The pay packet is definitely a consideration....but so is job satisfaction.

As the saying goes, "Find something you love to do and you'll never work a day in your life."

Over the course of my 38+ years in the electrical utility industry my various jobs and positions have always had their chores, so to speak, but I put up with them because for the most part doing the chores is the price you pay for enjoying your work. I guess I consider myself blessed that consistently < 10% of my tasks consisted of chores, and > 90% of my time was spent in enjoyable pursuits that happened to earn me a decent wage.

My advice is "Don't make the mistake of loving the money too much."

CR

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." [Proverbs 27:17, NIV]

 

[davidbeach]

I'm not independently wealthy and definitely need the pay check, but the job provides a never ending string of fascinating puzzles to solve. If you like puzzles it's a great life. If you want to know today what you'll be doing tomorrow or next week you wouldn't want my job.

 

[HamburgerHelper]

Transmission planning is not as dynamic as protection at most places. Unless, you have a lot of new loads or new generation ,usually wind, your 10 or whatever number of year workplan probably doesn't change much year to year.

 

[BlueBoxes]

EEak96:

I've been working in the utility industry in a variety of capacities over the past 10+ years. I'll give you a brief run-down of my experience in the industry, as it might help you make a decision, and perhaps help other people decide, too:

- Field work. The field is probably the best place to start one's career. You'll start testing equipment like circuit breakers, transformers, cables, and so on. It's a great way to gain intimate familiarity with the equipment before delving into engineering design. Eventually, you'll move on to relay testing. None of this work requires an electrical engineering degree per-se. In fact, most facility owners (utilities, industry, etc) contract this out to services companies. Those companies scramble a few technicians with the proper test equipment. It's pretty much all automated. Once you know how to connect the test sets and a few things to watch out for, you've got it nailed.

- Advanced field work. This is where you get to commission designs that have been engineered by you or someone else. This can get very tricky. You'll need to have excellent people management and troubleshooting skills. Some substation controls modifications are exceedingly complex, and you have to think not only in terms of a final design, but imagine a time axis where the wiring / settings are modified in steps. Those steps may require switching, PPE, and all other sort of precautions to ensure that you and your guys are safe and that there are no service interruptions. This work tends to pay best of all the work, but you'll probably be away from home more often than not. Also, in my experience, it is very hard on the body. Lots of time in hotels, behind the wheel, long days and nights, and high stress. However, it is a very thrilling job at times.

- Theoretical work. You might be lucky enough to find yourself in an R&D department at an equipment manufacturer. You'll be expected to have a strong command of power systems theory and programming knowledge. One company I worked for used an RTDS (real time digital simulator) which simulated power systems & control systems in real time. It's a real hoot - you basically build a power system like you'd draw it up in AutoCAD and simulate it. You'll connect these RTDS to relays, controllers, etc. in order to "fake" the devices into thinking they're on a real, legit power system. You might also be called upon to design protection algorithms, verify the theory in Mathcad, code it up, and beat the heck out of it in the lab. Again, this is all relatively theory, math, and computer heavy stuff.

- Consulting work. You might find yourself working for a consulting company that designs and commissions substations, power plants, etc. and modifications thereof. You'll learn a lot. You'll work your butt off. It seems like there is a high burnout rate in this field, but if you can find a company that balances work and play, this might be your cup of tea. You'll be interacting with customers in order to nail down requirements, provide cost estimates, do the engineering, and (maybe) you'll be commissioning the design implementation as well. Parts of this job can be extremely tedious, like drafting a few hundred schematics in AutoCAD because the drafters are too busy and the work simply has to get done. If you're good enough, you can work from home and simply fly out whenever you're needed somewhere. If you're so inclined, you'll get to do coordination, protection, stability and arc-flash studies. You'll have to build a model of the customer's facility, sometimes down to the gnat's ass. From there, you simulate faults in a static or dynamic realm to determine the system response and proper device settings. These studies can be incredibly detailed and frankly not many engineers know how to do it right (sometimes I'm that guy). There's a lot of handwaving, half-truths, etc. that get put into these reports in order to just get it in the customer's hands so the bills get paid. Anyway, I'll stop there ..

- Utility work. Utility work can encompass aspects of all the fields I mentioned above. Depends on the utility. Some tiny electric utilities don't even have electrical engineers per-se - everything is contracted out. At the other extreme, your larger utility companies like ConEd, FPL, Avista, etc. will have an engineer who specializes in, say, medium voltage circuit breaker maintenance. Super specific roles. It seems like there are really two tracks in a utility - technical and management. I am seeing an industry-wide push for curtailing staff technical personnel and relying more heavily on consultants like Black and Veatch. As a result, even the technical guys often find themselves simply managing projects at a high level while the consultants do the "dirty (fun?) work". Working for a utility can provide you with some interesting lifestyle opportunities - there are a lot of EEs (with experience) who decide to adopt a more laid-back lifestyle and get jobs with smaller rural utilities. You'll have a (relatively) well-paid job in a low cost of living area. Day-to-day, you'll be handling job orders, equipment purchases, large customer connection design, distribution coordination, maintenance schedules, etc. It's not terribly interesting stuff (in my opinion), but a lot of guys love that lifestyle.

- Self employed. If you can find steady work, you can (basically) double your typical power EE salary. Chances are, you'll be on the road and your stress levels will be higher. Eventually, if all goes well, you'll be able to hire some people to help pick up the slack. I could go into a lot more detail on this one, but it's getting late.

Well that's my quick summary of the industry. I'll be completely frank with you. There's not a whole heck of a lot of innovation in this industry. Sure, the relays get more bells and whistles every year, but we haven't seen anything revolutionary in quite some time. Generally as a power engineer, you're re-learning what has been lost through old-age attrition. Essentially maintaining a mass of relatively static tribal knowledge with a modern day flair. You'll never be unemployed, from what I can see. There is a scarcity of power engineers and it doesn't seem to be getting much better. A lot of countries (like Austria, to name just one) will give you citizenship if you work there as a power engineer, under certain conditions. But, it does get old. The field work, in my opinion, is the most enjoyable, but you'll take a hit in the lifestyle department. The theoretical work I mentioned above is also a blast, but these jobs are fairly rare. Plus, it seems like guys are often "promoted" out of that fun theoretical work.

The "office" side of power engineering is (generally) quite tedious. In fact, I'd say it ranges between tedious and outrageously tedious. For example, you might have to re-coordinate a small utility's entire system. You'll need to download / inspect all the relay settings as found, collect topological information (lines types, lengths, transformer & generator impedances), establish realistic dispatching scenarios, put the info into a database or spreadsheet of some sort, then put that into a system model, run your study, come up with "proper" settings (you'll never get two engineers to agree on the proper way to coordinate a system!), put those back into your spreadsheet / database for record keeping, then manually change the relay settings files, then upload those settings files to the relays out in the field. Oh, you'll need to write a weighty tome of a report, too .. all within budget!

That's how the sausage is made. Now I'm sure a lot of the guys reading this might love all the book keeping. I don't. Speaking of book keeping, you'll probably be faced with missing / incomplete / outdated drawings, perhaps into the thousands, that need to be dealt with somehow. Even with a drafter or two, this is a hellacious problem that a lot of smaller utility companies grapple with.

The close friends of mine who work in the industry, on average, tolerate the job because it affords them a good lifestyle. They neither love it or hate it, in general. It's a paycheck, and that's more than a lot of people have. Personally, I'm probably going to find another trade and continue to work part time in the industry until I can completely transition out. Hopefully this helps you make a decision, although I'm afraid it turned into a bit of a venting session towards the end - but hey, that's reality as this engineer sees it!

BB

 

[EEak96]

@BlueBoxes

Thanks. That was extremely helpful.

Out of all of the descriptions that you wrote, the ones that appealed to me the most were the theoretical work and bits and pieces from all the others. At the end of the day, I want to be doing more technical engineering work than managing, drafting, etc. The arc flash, protection and stability studies part of consulting work sounded pretty interesting, although the meeting with customers part not so much.

If you were to do it all again, would you still specialize in power systems(assuming you did), or would you go the route of microelectronics, RF, or any other EE specialization?

 

[BlueBoxes]

EEak96:

You sound a bit like me when I was in school - more academically inclined. That isn't common among rank-and-file power engineers. You might want to stick around for a MS EE in power, if your school offers graduate power specialization courses. If it doesn't you might consider doing the University of Idaho distance learning where you can get an MS in power. Excellent courses there, all online. The school is poorly ranked but that particular program is quite good.

The arc flash studies require a great deal of patience, as you'll find yourself building 480V panels into your model and worrying about conductor size, length, configuration, etc. Most customers don't have all the data you need, so you have to take an educated guess. Protection and coordination are definitely more interesting, but also require a tremendous amount of book keeping. This all has to be done on a budget, which definitely takes a lot of the fun out of it. I've found that you rarely get enough money budgeted for a study to really do it justice.

Stability studies are probably something you'd really enjoy. You'll be working at a higher level and won't have to deal with as much minutia as the other studies. This requires an excellent understanding of power systems theory (dynamics are much more complicated than static analysis) and you'll be well-served to know a lot about generator/exciter/governor design, testing and parameters. I always found these studies to be the most fun because you're watching a power system in motion, rather than fault snapshots to very protection and coordination is achieved. Some consultant firms have a PhD on staff to do these studies. The drawback is there isn't a lot of demand for stability studies compared to arc flash studies ..

I'd say you would be happy at a *large* utility in their protection / R&D group, or an equipment manufacturer like SEL or RTDS in their R&D department. If you end up at a smaller utility or consulting firm, you'll end up doing a lot of things you appear to not like (drafting, meeting customers, managing, etc).

If you put a gun to my head and said "choose an EE specialization", I'd still choose power. It pays well, has excellent job security, and gives you a variety of unique sub-specializations to choose from. I've just gotten bored with it!

BB