Question for the Exp'd Consulting Elec Bldg Services Eng from Newbie

[elekeng]

I have been with the small (30~ persons) electrical consulting firm for about 1 year now and its been my first "real engineering job" and I have some questions for some of our more experienced members in this field or in consulting engineering.

Since this is a small engineering company there is no "formal" training and most of the things that I have been doing are basically learning on the job, but after 1 year it still seems like I am doing almost the same things as I was when I started.

This includes checking electrical drawings, making panel schedules, circuiting of receptacles etc. and lighting and making low voltage lighting control schedules and looking at the code book for sizing of feeders, overcurrent devices etc.

I was wondering how long does it usually take to for someone "green" to actually be able to take on a small project by itself? I understand about having to pay my dues but another more checking doing tasks other people don't want to do is getting really boring...

Also is it normal in this business to have not-so-good management of talent? For example I have to go to ask for work to do everyday or else I would just sit there with no tasks and no one would care.

One thing that really bugs me is the lack of attention to detail. When we send out our drawings a lot of times we do not check them for mistakes and if something is missing, we usually just let the contractors deal with it or issue change notices.

I feel that this is quite weird in that during school, before we hand in reports, we usually check them as best as we can, but here in the workplace, while we are getting paid by clients, we don't usually check them. (When I mean checking, I mean checking the calculations, like the exact panel loading, as well as missing items etc.)

Is this how the consulting industry works?! Or just electrical consulting?!

Also for consulting electrical firms, during the electrical design phase, is software normally used because we still do everything manually and just input data into Excel.

In addition, do most engineers/designers do their own CAD work as well as design now, because in our company, design only does design, and CAD only does CAD. I am thinking it would be very beneficial for me to learn CAD as well.

Also may I ask what is the usual salary range for people in consulting (by the way I am in Canada)?

In summary, currently I am feeling frustrated because it seems that I keep doing the same stuff over and over again with very little chances of doing anything new and from my observations of the people at our firm, it seems that it takes at least a minimum of 10 years of experience in order to take on a project by yourself.

Going to work feels like a daily grind right now and I feel that this kind of environment is kind of weakening my work ethic and enthusiasm. When I first started, after work I would try to read up as many technical things as I could, but now after work, I can't muster the motivation do to so.

Also there is a real sense of apathy among the staff (most of the staff is senior). No one seems to care or even knows what the people in the other teams are working on and when things need to go out, our CAD department is swamped with requests of "needing to go out this afternoon" or "now" because of lack of coordination and communication/scheduling with the other teams.

Right now, I am not sure whether to find another job after my 2 year experience mark passes in the same industry or find another job in a completely different industry.

Thanks! (Sorry if the above paragraphs seem to jump all over the place with regards to topics/questions)

 

[GregLocock]

I was wondering how long does it usually take to for someone "green" to actually be able to take on a small project by itself?

3 months to 2 years to 15 years, depending on what you mean.

"For example I have to go to ask for work to do everyday or else I would just sit there with no tasks "
And
"One thing that really bugs me is the lack of attention to detail. When we send out our drawings a lot of times we do not check them for mistakes "

Seems to me to indicate that you aren't much of a self starter. You've identified a problem why aren't YOU fixing it?


"Also may I ask what is the usual salary range for people in consulting (by the way I am in Canada)?"

Aboot what they are worth.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[KENAT]

Partial answers, the lack of checking drawings is an oft lamented fact in many areas of industry. There is a perception in some parts that the advent of CAD eliminated the need for checking as the CAD would force the drawing to be correct, obviously no one considered GIGO. Some people think that not having work checked will force the person doing the drawing initially to 'step up to the plate' and improve the quality of their drawing.

As to Engineers doing their own drawings/detailed CAD work, there are other threads that cover this in some detail - take a look.

I've always done my own CAD work, I actually quite enjoy a lot of it, and now am responsible for checking others work (which I don't enjoy so much). However, this is arguably at the expense of some of my more analytical skills and the argument can be made that a less qualified person (e.g. a designer with associates not engineer with bachelors) can do the task for lower cost, albeit with the added cost of liason with the relevant Engineer.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[apsix]

elekeng
Don't feel too bad if you haven't managed to change company culture within your first year out.

However, it is necessary to retain a positive attitude despite a less than ideal work environment. Unfortunately there are plenty of those. Look for life enrichment from hobbies, social life etc.
Speak to others you graduated with, and don't be afraid to move on if where you are is found to be below average.
Your experience isn't confined to electrical consulting, changing industries won't necessarily help.

 

[GMcD]

Elekeng: I'm a mechanical building services engineer in Canada and I can share the same frustrations. The electrical engineering for buildings in Canada is very regulated and "codified" so there is actually very little "design" other than getting into the daylighting/lighting specialties end of it. I've had a few Architects say to me: "Geez, do all the engineers who can't do anything else end up as Electrical Consultants?" Now, I'm sure that there are a lot of good, competent electrical services consultants out there, but it's a pretty much groundhog day profession unless you find a niche like energy modelling, lighting design, or cogeneration systems. Have a look at learning about alternate energy systems for buildings - building integrated photovoltaics, micro-turbines, etc.

You have to understand why the CAD panics occur- take a look at another thread on here about "Missing the Old Days". CAD has allowed architects to make drawing and design changes right up to the last minute and easily e-mail them out to the sub-consultants, which then generates panics for the consultants, as they try to keep up with the architect's changes.

 

[ykee]

Upfront disclaimer: This a bit of a rant, and I've done electrical consulting for commerical and institutional buildings in Canada, and must say that I no longer work in consulting and am happier for it.

Electrical consulting varies tremendously by field. Most commercial and institutional work is very straightforward, with little technical work invovled, most work is related to slogging through the design and ensuring that codes and client requirements are met. Industrial electrical consulting is (in my opinion) much more interesting.

My experience is that senior consultants do a poor job of mentoring their junior staff. Part of this is the general A&E environment: fees are lower and timelines are tighter than before. Most small shops tend to take the attitude that if something needs to be done quickly then it should be done quickly and not used as a learning experience. I think the problem is not seeing the forest for the trees. Along the same lines, the lack of quality control can often be traced back to the fees and the timelines on projects, as well as the mistakes in architectural drawings. As far as your experience goes, I can't stress this enough: get field review experience & learn how to deal with contractors and suppliers!!! As far as your salary level goes, you can should be careful about how your job is described: if you have little responsibility (clearly your case from your post), then you will be paid little. You need to position yourself so that you are the one interacting with the clients. Consulting can pay fairly well, once you become the one responsible for brining in work.

Your firm should be using more than excel for their design, although, likely most of the work just needs excel. Something like ETAP or SKM for short circuit/protection coordination/arc fault should be used. You should be using some sort of lighting simulation software such as Visual, or Radiance, or even DiaLUX. You might want to look at some generator sizing software too. Renewables is a hot topic these days, and using a program like RETScreen is something that would also be of value for you.

OK, that's enough from me for now.

 

[elekeng]

Thanks for all the replies!

>>My experience is that senior consultants do a poor job of mentoring their junior staff.

That is very true, usually the project managers are never in the office so there isn't anyone managing anyone's workload which may work for intermediate/senior staff but doesn't work for junior staff.

An interesting point regarding this topic is that we had a foreign engineer who worked in his home country in the same field and he told me the situation is totally different. He told me that in his native country, senior staff love to teach junior staff things. He told me, when junior staff starts out, they give the new guys a small project and let them figure out do it all by themselves. Of course they will not know how to do a lot of things, then they will ask the senior staff whose main task is to help the new guys. After the project is done, the senior staff would throughly check over *all* the work the new guys had done. He said that after 2 or 3 projects and maybe within one year, they would be able to handle a project by themselves.

>>"One thing that really bugs me is the lack of attention to detail. When we send out our drawings a lot of times we do not check them for mistakes "

>>Seems to me to indicate that you aren't much of a self starter. You've identified a problem why aren't YOU fixing it?

I try to be as self starting as I can given the conditions. However its really hard when there isn't a "proactive response" culture. I put in a suggestion of implementing a company wiki to document best practices, products/cutsheets frequently used in projects etc. but it was dismissed being hard to maintain. With regards to the drawings, most of the stuff that passes through me, I try to check as throughly as I can but humans can only be so accurate. It really seems that I am the only peer reviewer of drawings (well the ones that get passed down to me).

>>Your firm should be using more than excel for their design, although, likely most of the work just needs excel. Something like ETAP or SKM for short circuit/protection coordination/arc fault should be used. You should be using some sort of lighting simulation software such as Visual, or Radiance, or even DiaLUX. You might want to look at some generator sizing software too. Renewables is a hot topic these days, and using a program like RETScreen is something that would also be of value for you.

We don't use any software for electrical design. I would like to play around with the above mentioned software, but they are not free and getting anything IT-wise is already a bit of a struggle, where it be modern hardware or software...

@ykee: Do you mind sharing your past experiences with elec. consulting and why you got out of it?

 

[ykee]

RETScreen is free. Most lighting software is free, or at least free if you request it from a vendor (incidentally something which you should be doing on a regular basis, if not, it's a good opportunity to contact them). Most of the other software is available in at least a 30 day demo format, if you want to try it out. A lot of this stuff is expensive to produce & maintain (large databases), so there it's only fair to pay for it.

I am surprised that you do not have to do any software analysis, as most jurisdictions require some form of fault current study prior to approving drawings & issuing permits.

As for my experience in electrical consulting, it was generally positive. I usually had jobs given to me and had to figure them out based on historical jobs, which did appeal to me, for a while. I did have some support from those more senior. It was however more of a trial and error process, whereby I learned a lot from errors (and contractors!). What did me in for the commercial/institutional sector was that I saw that in order to get up to the food chain, the best way was to sell services, then do jobs as quickly as possible, and manage risk by getting low quality drawings out quickly and issuing changes during construction. The hours were long, the work not particularly interesting, the margins were low the stress level high & the job was becoming more sales than anything else.

If you are concerned about the level of mentoring, or the type of work you are doing, look for another job. Don't be afraid of looking or talking to other engineers about what they do -- just be aware that word could get back to your managers. I would suggest that you find some local networking events and meet some other folks in the same region. There are plenty of large engineering firms that do interesting work in a more industrial setting.

 

[calguy07]

where in canada are you? i'm in alberta. in my company there's a real emphasis on checking designs before going for review or construction.

as far as the training goes, my situation is similar, though i must say that i was thrown to the wolves and given my own small design project after 4-5 months in. after 1.5 yrs nothing has changed really. you learn through your experiences with each project and your mistakes..and not making them more than once.

i agree about the mentoring. the senior people are hardly ever around but when they are, they are available for help. its not the best situation but its not the worst either. in a perfect world we'd have mentoring sessions at least once a week but with their workloads, its just not practical.