Question on Commutes and on Management 5

[Lion06]

How long of a commute do most people have to their office? Is there anyone who's considered changing jobs (or has changed jobs) to get a shorter commute?

I have an hour commute one way into the office and it's becoming a bit burdensome on my home life. I also have a 3rd child coming in about 2 months and the extra time away from home is going to be even more problematic. On top of the quality of life issues, it is becoming very expensive (I spend almost $600/month on gas - not including my wife's vehicle).

If I didn't like my job or the people I work with I would have started looking already, but I love my job and I really enjoy the people I work with. On top of that, I happen to be one of the lucky ones (from what I've read in other posts anyway) that has a very good manager on top of the other good things at work. The prospect of changing companies and potentially having to work for one of these horrible managers is a bit scary. This is really only my second job (first in engineering - I worked for manufacturing company for 9 years) and I've been lucky enough to not have a horrible manager yet. I would appreciate if people give me an idea of how many of their managers have been hard to work for - either having unrealistic expectations for work output or just being an outright jerk or any other issues. I would think that most managers would want to be liked by their employees since I don't think most people enjoy acting like jerks, but I could be wrong.

So the bottom line is that I would love to look for a new job closer to home with a more flexible schedule, but I am scared to death of ending up in a job I don't like or working for a manager who is difficult. As much as I hate the extra drive time, I'd rather spend the extra 1-2 hours per day driving than hate the 8-9 hours in between the commutes to and from the office.

 

[monkeydog]

Over the past 24 years, I have worked at the same company.

But within the company, my office location has moved 6 times.

And I lived in 5 different locations, with a commute starting at 15 minutes, up to 45 minutes (25 miles) ending up in 5 minutes (3 miles).

I ended up going the early-in early-out method, developed during the 25 mile commute days.

I say keep the job you like, as life goes on, you will probably have some easy commutes and some tough commutes, but at least when you go home, you won't be taking garbage with you.

 

[ykee]

As a side note (& something that irks me):
One benefit to the "late in/late out" is that for whatever reason, no one really notices that you come in late, and when you are consistently the last one to leave, everyone thinks you are working really hard -- people who are "early in/early out" are seen as leaving early, and not pulling their weight, since no one is at work to notice that they have been there for an hour before everyone else gets in.

 

[ischgl99]

Take the $600/month gas expense and put it into a new mortgage.

This is a common mistake when comparing commuting costs, you need to consider the cost of the vehicle and maintenance as well and not just the out of pocket expenses. (not picking on you Mike, just using your statement as an example) With that much driving, you are probably buying a new car every few years or spending a lot on the maintenance. AAA claims a rate of $0.71 a mile last time I looked for our area, so your actual savings per year are probably significantly more then $600/month. I could certainly afford a more expensive house if I was saving $12-15k a year in commuting expenses and you might as well if you sit down and run the actual numbers.

I turned down a good job offer for the identical reasons you are stating here, the commute would be over an hour each way, the housing costs are substancially more expensive closer to this company and we just had our second child. I place a high value on family life and could not justify the extra time away from the family in addition to the extra $15k in commuting costs. The kids grow so fast and that is time you will never get back. I would recommend going in earlier to work like one poster mentioned and start looking to see if there is something you can afford closer to the company. You are in an ideal position, you don't have to move and have time to find something that works for you.

To answer your other question, it is risky finding a new company to work for, but you could do that as well. Start a search to see if there is anything in your area that interests you and then before accepting anything, talk to as many people as you can to make sure it will be a good fit. A good manager will understand you wanting to make sure the fit works, he wants the same thing, someone that gives you flak about it probably is not someone you want to work for.

 

[Lion06]

Well, I change my own fluids and drive my vehicles until they die (literally). I had 240k miles on the last one when I got rid of it just a couple years ago. I had that vehicle for almost 9 years.
My work is only 30 miles from my house (not overly oppressive), but there are a million other people tgoing the same direction I need to.
I ran through that calc (assuming $0.71/mile and assuming that I would be 10 miles from work which is a reduction of 40 miles per day) and I come up with a savings of $611.
I can't eliminate gas or driving completely because I do have other things I need to drive for (e.g. sports practice, child care, grocery store, etc...).

I certainly appreciate all of the input.

 

[Trackfiend]

In my last comment I meant to say, the job is worth the commute. I really, really, really don't enjoy driving that much.

 

[bridgebuster]

My commute is 2 1/2 - 3 hours each way. Northeast PA to NYC. When I lived and worked in the City commuting time varied from 15 minutes to 1 hour, depending on whether I was on a field job or in the office.

If you want to stay where you are - home and job - is there public transportation available? I recall you mentioned in a post that you're in the Philadelphia area, can you take Septa? A long commute stinks but it's a bit more tolerable when someone else is driving. When I lived in NY riding the subway for 45 minutes to an hour was nothing. 20 years ago, when I first married I commuted from NY to New Haven for a year - 78 miles each way - got old fast. Even a one hour commute - when you're doing the driving - stinks. Occasionally, I work on field assignments in the Philadelphia area so I know what the traffic is like.

Can you work a 4-day week (10 hours per day; work at home one or two days per week? I have a flexible arrangement where I am; sometimes it works; sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth. Working from home is fairly easy if you're working alone or with only one or two people on a project.

With the difficulty in finding good people your boss might be open to some type of flexible schedule. My boss is usually OK with my coming & going but I work it out so that I'm in the office when I have to be here and can be easily reached when I'm not.

 

[Lion06]

All but one of the SEPTA lines are north of me and that one is about 20 miles east of me. It would take me 30 minutes to get to the nearest train station and then another 40 on the train.
I'm considering asking about a flexible schedule. I know I've sort of thrown the idea around to other people or just asked some probing questions and the theme is that our office NEEDS to be available when our clients need us to be (within reason, obviously - architects tend to keep odd hours). A big part of this is because of the architects that we work with - most have won a considerable number of AIA awards and very often have projects that we work on with them written about in magazines and newspapers.

I don't even take the main roads into work. If I did, it would be even worse. If there is no traffic I can get to the office in about 35 minutes taking the main roads. During the hours I travel, it takes 1 hour and 45 minutes on the main roads. I take all back roads and it is between an hour, and an hour and 10 minutes pretty much regardless of when I travel.

 

[SylvestreW]

I was working at a company for ~3yr when they decided to relocate approximately 10kms away. Unfortunately, the new location meant a morning commute of approx 50min, and >1hr in the afternoon. On bad days, I worked late instead of trying to go home, or took a toll road (costing a lot).

I started looking for a new job 3 months after the move. The new job is now 10 mins each way. Within the first week of the new job, my wife was commenting on how happier I was in the evenings, how much more energy I had etc. And as a bonus, I only fill up every 1.5-2weeks (as opposed to twice a week).

Personally, if I can make it happen, I'll never go to a job requiring more than 15-20mins each way.

-
Syl.

 

[civilperson]

The thing to change for an onerous commute is your home address. Jobs are too important to change for petty neighborhood concerns.

 

[COEngineeer]

structEIT.. I have seen most of your posts and to be honest with you I think you are one hell of an engineer for how much experience you have. Dont worry about how much you like your job right now. Take care of your self! Usually the best way to increase your salary is by moving to a different company. I am pretty sure you can find that one perfect job where you only have 15 min of commute plus it will pay much more.

OR,

Ask your boss if you can do 4 10hr schedule so you have 3 days weekends and only have to commute 4X a week.

AND

Get your self a hybrid or a SMART car



Never, but never question engineer's judgement

 

[bvanhiel]

Your obviously unhappy with your current situation if your asking strangers for advice. I'd look for another job and another house. You might be surprised by what you find. There might be a perfect job just around the corner from your house. Once you've uncovered your options you can sit down with your wife and discuss the relative merits. It might be that moving closer to work into a smaller home is a worthwhile trade if you can be more active in your children's lives. It may not be. You can only truly make the decision after you've got the facts. Otherwise you might as well flip a coin.

 

[BlastResistant]

When I worked in San Francisco, I had a 1.5 hour commute each way. When I worked in San Jose, I had a 1.5 hour commute each way. When I worked in Manhattan, I had a 1.75 hour commute each way. Now I work in Honolulu, and have a 1.25 hour commute each way.

It seems like even the best paying structural jobs at the most prestigious engineering firms don't pay enough for younger guys to afford to live in the Big City (or even close within 30 minutes). I guess I could make it work, but I want to live in a nice house with 3 bedrooms and a big yard for the dog and toddlers -- not a dirty 900 square foot studio apartment with no grass.

I think unless you win the lottery, commuting (for guys who aren't successful doctors or lawyers) is just a way of life for the rest of eternity (if you want a safe, decent environment for your wife and kids). And it's only gonna get worse.

 

[GregLocock]

Your other question was about managers.

I haven't had that many I really work with well, most I have been able to ignore/work around. I've had say 4 good ones and 6 bad ones and a couple in the middle. I would leave a job if I couldn't work around a bad manager.

Some of those bad managers were good people in a bad situation.

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[RVSWA]

When our first child was on the way and my wife was making $10/hr with her Masters degree (Psychology), I took a job with another Company for a slight raise and an opportunity to broaden my experience. I would be ashamed to mention how short both commutes were. The new job was with a great engineer, I still measure myself against him, but the environment was substantially different and I eventually became miserable. When I left for this job, I left on a good note with plenty of notice and was told that if I ever changed my mind I was welcome back. I eventually took him up on his offer, pay cut and all... I know that when I come in early I usually get more work done in two hours than most days. This may be a selling point, your productivity could speak for itself. One way to approach your boss may be with a trial proposal so you aren't asking them to commit to something that may not work out for them. "I'll try it for one month over which you can measure my productivity and general impact to the office. At the end of the month you can decide if we should try another month trial." Perhaps giving them an out until you can prove if it works for the both of you will sell the idea. That's all I've got...

 

[PSE]

StructuralEIT,

Are there others in the office who live close enough nearby to carpool with? This is something I have been able to do on occasion (unfortunately not currently), and it can certainly help reduce your costs. The downside is the occasions when schedule conflicts occur at the last minute. You lose some flexibility.

You like the job (which can be a rarity in and of itself), so like the other respondents, I would recommend staying with it.

Regards

 

[davidbeach]

$600 a month in gas? For a 30 mile trip? Assuming $4.00 per gallon, and making a few other assumptions, that is 6-7 gallons per day for 60 miles. That's 10 mpg or less. Get a much more efficient car before worrying about moving. You ought to be able to at least double your mileage.

 

[cvg]

the $600 includes more than just fuel - you have maintenance and depreciation also. Besides for stop and go city driving, the cost might be more. I believe the AAA rate of 71 cents per mile does not assume all "stop and go" city driving, but a mix of different types. It's hard to tell what kind of car StructuralEITdrives since he has not given that information...

 

[Lion06]

I have an SUV that gets around 16 mpg, but I also have to drive other places beyond just work grocery stores, dr. appt's sports practices, child care, etc....). While the $600/month in gas is a consideration, it is small in comparison to the extra 2 - 2.5 hours a day spent away from home (not to mention that moving even around the corner from my office will not do any better than cut my gas bill in half because of the driving requirements noted above). The 2 - 2.5 hours per day on the road is my biggest concern. It is valuable time away from my family. I am gone between 11 hours (on a good day) and 12 hours on a not-so-good day. By the time I get home, eat dinner with the kids, and check some homework I only have about 15-20 minutes with them before it's bed time.
That really sucks.

The question regarding the manager was really to get an idea of whether a good manager is really difficult to come by. That is just to gauge whether it is going to be really hard to find another one if I leave where I am. I love my job a lot........ A LOT.
That being said, I don't want to miss out on too much with my kids.

 

[COEngineeer]

go all out man. Find a job in different states also. Find a good neighborhood. I dont know which state you are in but in colorado you can find plety of houses for less than 300k with big yards and have 20 min commute to downtown Denver. I think your kids are your no. 1 priority. 15-20 min with them at night is not acceptable I think. Before you know it, they are 16 and have trouble at school. But I cant say much since I dont have kids

Never, but never question engineer's judgement

 

[TenPenny]

" Jobs are too important to change for petty neighborhood concerns."

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick there. Family and home life come first, the job is simply a tool to look after the others.