Continue to Site

Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet

Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals

  • Congratulations waross on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!

"bridge in a backpack"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Interesting. It's the idea of carrying concrete in by backpack that I don't like!


----------------------------------
image.php

If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 
Interesting.

The title is a bit miss leading though, the article does say you still need trucks for the concrete.

I wonder if the military is looking at it.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies: What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
I'm still waiting for the day Legos become a viable building material. Back then the biggest question was "should I use a round or square 2x2?" Usually more colorful too.
 
I'm having trouble visualizing this. They say the arches are "preformed from carbon fiber composite" and "inflated on site" and "cure within hours". Elsewhere (mainly in the news article), they say the arches are "filled with concrete" - which led me to wonder how the heck they got the concrete inside the tubes. I guess you could inflate an arch and then coat it with epoxy resin (or have it precoated), leaving it inflated for the resin to cure. But, then how do you fill the tube with concrete without compromising the composite tube's strength? Or is the concrete simply backfill over the top of the tube arch and sheet panels? I think the latter, but the "filled with concrete" verbiage is misleading in that case.
 
I was thinking they pumped the concrete into the CF tube but wasn't sure.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies: What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
I'm figuring you have to put an elbow and a standpipe on one end of the arch tube, and dump the concrete in at the top of the standpipe. You need the gravity head to inflate the arch tube and provide enough internal pressure to make it self-supporting.

Yeah, saying 'bridge in >a< backpack' is misleading.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
But, then you'd need a crane to put the concrete-filled arch into place, which they implied was not required. And I'm not sure a concrete-filled carbon fiber sleeve (as opposed to hardened/cured carbon/epoxy tube) would be stable enough to hold the arch shape while the concrete cured. Dunno, I may have to research it some more...
 
Hmm. Careful re-reading of the article, and similar on the U of Maine composite center's site, the arches are shipped to site, then inflated and formed to arch shape in situ, and then rigidized (cured). Subsequently they are filled with concrete (doesn't say how, and I can't see any external fittings at the top of the arches to allow for gravity feed, so I guess they pump it thru...how do they keep from having a void at the top of the arch I dunno...one more of life's mysteries...)
 
Well spotted, I hadn't even found the link to that.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies: What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
Good find, it seems like this would work for smaller bridges but I can't imagine that those tubes would be able to span very far filled with concrete.
 
SKIAK, they do mention a girder design using some of the same principles which I'd think might enable larger spans.

I guess fundamentally they're using an exoskeleton like an insect rather than an endoskeleton like mammals etc.

I wonder how well the composite really protects the concrete, or if it degrades over time or at least if moisure can seap in somehow.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies: What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
An exoskeleton, like reinforced concrete with the tension members on the outside.

I'd think a veneer of mortar would be appropriate, else the bridge is susceptible to damage by vandals.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
Mike, I had similr thoughts of accidental or as you say intentional damage.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies: What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
btrue, I was thinking they filled it 'in place' either with a pump or maybe gravity flow as mike says.
The arches were manufactured from 12-inch diameter rigidized inflatable hollow carbon fiber composite tubular arches spaced at approximately 2-feet on center, erected into place and filled with concrete.

(originally posted after 14 Apr 09 13:44 post)

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies: What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
Damage is a good point. I'm sure they could grout, get a fiber patch, epoxy? Seems like the epoxy step could be problematic, getting the old to bond with the new... sounds similar to fixing my Coleman raft, I usually just ditch it and get a new one. Heck at $500K a pop I might get one for my back yard... the bridge to nowhere...
 
I have some of the same misgivings about the exposed fiber tubes, but more due to debris impact from gully-washer floods and limbs/stumps/trees being washed down.

Kenat, yes, I read that too, but it wasn't clear at first whether the tubes were truly filled with concrete, or just backfilled/overburdened with concrete (i.e. left air-filled or hollow). The photos and text in the original article weren't very clear on the sequence.

Then again, yes, I'm sometimes guilty of overthinking, and over-posting. Debated red flagging my whole string of posts. Then decided, nah, I'll add more noise with a reply to your post instead...
 
My post was originally in the middle of your diatribe ;-) but I screwed up the /quote and asked 'the management' to fix my typo. However there was an issue and I was asked to repost, but now it's not in order ...

Still, seems pretty neat to me but I'd be interested to know about the durability issues.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies: What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
I read it as another possibly cheaper way of doing formwork before the concrete is poured in. The composite will fall to bits over time leaving the circular arches unconnected to anything. These will in turn fall off sideways leaving a piece of corrugated steel dangling by hope alone to the concrete. The metal will then fall off leaving a wierd corrugated arch profile on the bridge. Water will get into the pores and inevitable voids in th corrugated profile and if there is any freeye thaw action at all the corrugations will fall off in chunks.

Looks like a design which saves money on construction and generates a whole load of maintenance problems 30-50 years on.

IMHO - Rubbish.

Can´t wait to see their new take on the wheel........

gwolf
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Part and Inventory Search

Sponsor