"Chance" of a lifetime 2

[Senselessticker]

I'm hoping to get some feedback from some folks who have taken some BIG risks vs. reward with their career.

I have a friend who is a very successful GC. He started his business around 10 years ago. He mostly builds $500k+ homes, small commercial buildings, and usually goes after "odd/difficult" high profile type jobs. His quality around town is unriveled. Most of his subcontractors are folks he has been doing business with years.

Long story short: he has a standing offer for me to join him once once I get my PE (~1.5 years). At such a time, he plans to bring an Architect and maybe another engineer on board to become a Design/Build type of company. He basically wants me to help run the business and deal with the city/county/lawyers/construction schedules/subcontractors etc...

If I join him, my salary would more than triple from the beginning. Assuming things go well within a few years...I would get a stake in the company.

Is this the opportunity of a lifetime, or should I be very careful in my consideration before I try to leave cubicalville?

 

[IRstuff]

Of course, it is.

The question you have to answer is how much risk can you stand? Some people and some companies fail at diversification. That's the downside, e.g., you might be looking for a job in 2 years.

However, the experience is probably invaluable.

And will you ever regret not doing it?

TTFN

 

[ewh]

Both.

 

[MadMango]

I have always been told to never mix family/friends with business.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ctopher]

I agree with IRstuff.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
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ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[looksatstars]

He sounds like a good guy to do business with as it seems he has a good handle on his side of the business.
I think you have decide if you can handle your side of the proposed business, which does not seem like an easy task because if you don't get permits in time, it will hold his construction side up.
I personally do not like to mix business with good friendships because its hard to say "don't take it personally, its just business" when there is money involved.

If you are willing to put in an equal amount of work and effort as he is, you may get a fast track to where you want to be in 10 years(and keep a good friend).

 

[kontiki99]

Ask yourself:

How long before you retire?

Is your existing retirement portable?

What other benefits do you lose by leaving?

What benifets do you gain with the new outfit?

Do you maintain enough cash or liquid asets to support yourself for 6 months with no income if something goes wrong?

What do you want to do?

Once you know these answers, you'll probably have your answer.

 

[JStephen]

First off, I'd wait 1.5 years and then see how serious he was about actually doing this.

Secondly, I see you're in the Electrical field, and that seems like an odd addition to the plan- does he do so much electrical that he needs an electrical engineer to do it? Or are you supposed to stamp foundation plans and HVAC along with the electrical?

 

[macmet]

Sounds like a great opportunity.

I always tell myself though that if sounds too good to be true it probably is...

but not always

 

[tripleZ]

I'd also question the "triple" salary. Not his offer of it, but the future potential. If that's based on the current housing boom, and your plan is based on a market 1.5 years down the road, you could potentially be talking about two different business climates. Certain areas continue to expand, yet building is quickly running out of steam in others. Definitely something to consider. I think the Wall St. Journal does an article a week anymore on the condition of the housing/building market in various areas of the US (assuming you're in the US).

Kontiki's statement about salary is also very true. Coming from a family of entrepreneurs, I was always taught to have a minimum of 6 months take home pay ready in case of an emergency. 1.5 years gives you time to both study and start saving.

Good luck.

 

[proletariat]

Small-time contractors see a PE license as a rubber stamp and assume you are qualified to do anything which may require sealing. My only concern is your competency may be lacking with regard to sealing structural and land development drawings. If you refuse to seal something outside your competency, will this guy wonder what he is paying you for?

As far as the risk/reward, I would go for it if I felt competent enough to handle my side of the business.

 

[Senselessticker]

Funny thing, JStephen, that you ask about him "being serious". He talked/joked about it for years while I was in school. I thought he was only kidding. When I finally asked how serious he was (about a year ago), I realized how serious he really is. He's not kidding...

Concerning stamping the HVAC/Structural drawings, yes, that is part of the plan for me. However, until such a time when I have the experience to be competent in those areas, he would employee someone qualified to do so. He and I have discussed this. I suppose at some point in the future I would need to consult with the lawyer on what is considered "competent". But that's a struggle for later...

 

[EddyC]

I agree with proletariat, that he will expect you to be a "rubber stamp". And you say that you will be expected to stamp all disciplines? This is a dead givaway about your "pal's" intentions. Also bear in mind that certain states don't allow design-build to be done with a GC as the prime business entity. These states have realized that you can't trust a Contractor to be ethical enough to be the prime.

 

[monkeydog]

Senselessticker,
It sounds like you are already trying to figure out how to worm out of your responsability as a PE. How much can you stamp something without getting in trouble?
Good lawyer question, you should keep him on retainer, you will need it.

 

[JStephen]

I would be very skeptical about getting into something where I would be expected to stamp all disciplines. Once you're hired under that condition, there'll be an awful lot of pressure exerted to seal stuff you know nothing about. Definitely read up on your state rules and see what's required in the way of competency and responsible charge.

You might consider taking a few hours and working out the details of a seismic or wind analysis using current building codes for one of the guy's projects before you decide you want to jump into that field.

The guy may be taking the amount he's currently paying as engineering fees and deducing what he could pay as a salary out of it- not realizing the scope of work that gets done for those fees.

 

[DReimer]

And remember, if you seal something outside your area of professional competence, it's YOUR ass in a sling. He will just say "Well the PE signed it, I thought it was fine."

If, on the other hand, he is happy to sub out engineering work for which you are not competent to sign off, then go for it.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

I got/have a standing offer from a pal to do the same thing, only the structural part...

My compromise is this: I do the work for him on weekends, days off and at night. That was good enough for him and good enough for me. I'll make a few extra thousand the next year if all goes well. It it doesn't, I'm none the worse for wear.

 

[monkeydog]

Senselessticker,
I apologize for my comment, I re-read it this morning, and it is pretty nasty.
But, for me little red flags are going off.
DaveVikingPE has a good idea. When you get your PE, do the nights & weekends shift. You will have an idea if you friend is on the up and up.

 

[Senselessticker]

Concerning stamping other disciplines...(folks do this all the time..right?). Its an issue of if you "know your sh**" or not. I would never stamp anything I didn't feel comfortable stamping. In reality though...how complicated is HVAC/structural for small commericial buildings? I imagine it wouldn't take long to learn applicable codes/standards. I know from an electrical standpoint, anyone with a minimal level of technical/engineering skills could become competent in a couple years or less when dealing with the electrical. This isn't rocket science.

 

[TDAA]

"In reality though...how complicated is HVAC/structural for small commercial buildings?" - Apparently more than you realize. Read through the structural (and geotechnical for that matter) engineering boards here. You will see that even the simple structures have issues that may be complicated. A lot of this is due to the code and the variety of ways you must analyze things. I am not saying this cannot be learned, but whom will you be learning from as a fresh PE?

Also, consider that the contractor is rarely sued for electrical problems (I believe), but will get sued if the foundation moves and damages the structure, or lets say fails and kills someone due to a structural design oversight.

Depending on your area, the geotechnical aspects alone, "although not rocket science", could create major problems and require vast knowledge of the conditions. For example, we have a subdivision that we work in where the only 2 people, of the 250+ we have (all geotechnical), are allowed to perform any work. One is a Senior Principal ($180/hr) and the other is a Engineering Geologist ($100/hr). Also, there are parts of that area they refuse to work in, no matter which client, or how many times they are asked.