Radeon 9800 (or 9700) use in Solidworks

[KiLLaK]

Has anyone had any more recent (ref: post re: 9700 in April 03) experience with the Radeon 9800 or 9700. I was thinking of getting a 9800"All in Wonder" for my home system, but if it has marginal capabilities in SW...I will stick with an Nvidia card.
I curretnly use Ti 4600s both at work and at home...and they work quite well with SW( Currently using 2004B2). I would like to upgrade, though...and have read some articles describing less than complete DirectX9 compliance for the Nvid Fx5900.
Also, the 9800 seems to have somewhat better visuals.
I once bought an ATI 9500(for home) but with the drivers that came with the carc, SW would open up...but there would be nothing in the workspace...completely unusable!
I have since heard (and read) that the newer CATALYST Drivers have added CAD support. Although I have also read that ATI wants you to buy a Fire GL card for CAD!!!
Anyway, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks all.
Kelin

 

[JNR]

Just how much risk are you willing to take?

It is published fact the SW2004 is baslined (irrespective of RealView) on the Quadro chipset.

Bear in mind the issues with alternative graphics cards/drivers in the past - particularly with SW2003 (no RealView there!).

Look at all the old posts relating to graphics issues, speed and stability, etc. Look at all the whining and crying as well.

I have to be blunt about this. All I can say is if you choose to go out and buy anything but a Quadro based graphics card, heading into SW2004, don't you dare to come back and complain if it does not work later. You will get no sympathy from me nor I suspect most of the regulars on this news group. For once SolidWorks have made their basline choice and publicly stated it. We really do not have any excuse if we do not follow that guideline.

Granted if you are looking at your home system for light use, home licence, then maybe you can stay with what you currently have or choose the best opion for you heaviest application and deal with the results if necessarly. But for commercial use there really is no question.

3/4 of all the Spam produced goes to Hawaii - shame that's not true of SPAM also.......

 

[Rocko]

Dear JNR ,
I do not agree with your view, if Software companies that produce games can allow for 2 or 3 brands of graphic card producers why not SW. I understand that realview may not be available if you choose a non Quadro Chipset, but having that option not on is a choice and should allow those who really think that it is not that great of a thing anyway operate without a Quadro Chipset card. I always have a problem with software companies when they get to dictorial about specific brands of hardware you can use. I have no problem with them giving general guidelines such as RAM, Graphic Card Brands & Ram size, HD Size and RPM, and processor SPeeds. What SW has to remember that alot of us have numerous programs both engineering and business related on our systems and perhaps there choice is not the best for those programs.

 

[dj4244]

Dear Rocko,

I think what JNR is saying is since SW is "baselined" on the Quadro chipset that is the safest bet! If you choose another chipset that's fine just don't cray about it later if and when it dosn't work with 2004! As far as SW being dictorial all they did is publish what they used as a baseline by way of information. If you choose to ignore it and make other choices for whatever resons your SW performance or nonperformance is on your head and no one elses

David A. Johnson
Thunder Systems Inc.
Corona, CA

 

[LoveAeris]

I agree with Rocko.

Selection should not be ONLY one. I have no problem to see a program is tuned up based on hardware or unique software function at beginning. However, a software manufacture should not limit the selection of video card.

It seems like some of forks are giving a message "Use it or loose it", but I am very interesting to hear on this by SolidWorks personnel. "Realview" is available with Quadro Chipset on a future release does not necessary mean that other video card will not support it.

For example, FF11 was in same situation. It was developed based on nVidia GeForce3 card, but the official page now says "nVidia GeForce or ATI Radeon9000". We, customers should have more than one selection, especially for video card because it is a major component of PC. A competition will improve the price and quality.

By that way, is there really risk involved if you select something else other than Quadro? This is a web site of SolidWorks.

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/services/VideoCardTesting.html

As long as you see "Pass", the card should be OK. That means SW run without problems. However, there are other functions to check, like speed, quality of pictures, or etc. That's why a personal preference is involved and we select different video card based on the preference. "Realview" is only one of function and even if it doesn't work, it does not necessary mean the card is listed as "Failed", probably "Passed W/L".
Is there an official web page that "Realview" works only with Quadro?

Anyway, Eng-Tips is NOT only for Quadro user and I will support you anyway as long as they are listed as "Pass" or "Pass W/L" on the SolidWorks web page. I would say it's on your risk if you select "Failed" from the page above.

 

[SBaugh]

The new Quadro cards have some new Technology on them and the Real view takes advantage of that (To my understanding). That's why the Real view is only available to those cards (at this time) When the technology gets spread out a little we may see and may have more of a choice in cards that support Real view.

But I'm glad to see SW has stepped up to the plate and said these cards will work for SW and support realview at the same time. I get a TON of calls everyday asking what card SW recommends. Well now I can give them a card instead of saying go here and pick out a card that you like. Even though it may pass at the site, it maybe an old card (This happened recently to one of my customers).

If you don't want or care about Real view then get a card that doesn't support it. It's that simple... but if you get a card that doesn't pass in the green, then you really can't complain, unless you didn't check out the website first, but make sure it's a newer card and not one that's been out a while.

SW isn't saying that other cards won't work with SW, they are only saying that some cards don't support Realview. It's not SW fault because certain cards don't have that technology yet. Talk to Nvidia and ask them why the Geforce cards don't support it or other types for that matter..?

I understand Rocko's point but I also agree with JNR to some degree as well. I think I have made it clear above, that SW isn't saying just use these cards and that's it. They are saying these cards work with SW and with Real View. So if you want a card that SW recommends directly with SW04 get one of those cards.

Regards,



Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

 

[G1DESIGN]

dear guys a bit of background first

real view is based on the cg high level programming language cg is a developers kit for games makers and the like and allows more realistic on screen realtime rendering using the graphics hardware as opposed to software more recently the technology nvidia has incorporated in its graphics cards has evolved to take advantage of the advances in chipset technology and enable it to be used in software applications for dcc and engineering

the basic view window will enable creation of realtime rendered images to a very high standard approaching rendered images sufficiently detailed and accurate enough to make believe that the two technolgies combined can produce a non rendered photo real image


whilst this is still a long way off the support on nvidia cards means that this particular method of shading and colour sampling is very very good and is suited more to these cards moving towards hardware rendering as opposed to software rendering reducing timescales for realy high quality images.

scott may remember my gripes about the pw2 renderer now based on mental ray taking so long well basically hardware rendering eliminates a lot of rendering time

as with any form of high end rendering software shaders must be pre written and applied and whilst this is slightly outside the scope of most solidworks users what you get in realview is a set of pre prepared shaders to apply ,the graphics card takes care of taking this c based information and interprates it to what you see on screen

Now im pretty sure that the support for nvidia cards by solidworks is based partly on this technology nvidia had a big hand in it and whilst im sure ati cards may support cg ive not seen any code development tools for ati cards to fully implement cg or termed real view this may mean that the nvidia card is the better choice for now

 

[Mindnumb]

To Killak !

I have ben using a radeon 9500 non pro.

Its essentially the same card as the FireGl X1.
You can "upgrade" your 9500 to a firegl class card.

If you get hold of the 1036 firegl drivers , and apply patch with Rivatuner.

http://download.guru3d.com/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=163

It has some issues on my system, like large performance drop when having more than 5 windows(assemblys, parts) open at the same time. Otherwise performance is unmatched, made an assembly with 5000+ parts, and it spinned around with no problem. I did NOT use large aseembly mode.

Try it out, an let us know how you are doing !

 

[TreeHuggingAsperger]

We have been using SW on Radeon 9000Pro's without problems. On the other side when I upgraded at home to a Radeon 9600Pro I couldn't run SW no more. Same symptoms as described further up with empty workspace (although when moving cursor over model outlines will come up). Read somewhere on a German 3D forum that there are some fundamental issues with ATI cards and CAD software.

 

[Mindnumb]

TreeHugging : have you tried the firegl mod on your card?

It would be nice to se if it works for you .

Ps: if you get it working, try the 6x antialiasing setting, things look very nice feels like having twice the resolution . I can only use it if I´m opening one or two assemblys, the problem mentioned in previous post get worse with AA anabled.