Reality Check Please 11

[Keigi]

Hello,

I am seeking other's perspective on a situation that occurred at work the other day. New & Only engineer at current company and new PE. Background: Design is for an industrial system in OH.

After designing an inspection deck and support steel for a piece of equipment, I worked with a designer to model the equipment and create the shop drawings. My manager held a review of the drawings without me and was going to issue the drawings to the shop before I had a chance to review them. I was a bit frustrated at this, so I addressed this with him.

My manager said:

1. I do not need to review the drawing before releasing to the shop.
2. I cannot review everything the engineering group does.
3. If anything is wrong with the design, then he will be responsible for it, and then he will get with me about the issues.
4. If the shop, in-house fabrication, does not follow the drawing then that is just how it is, and we need to communicate better with the shop.

My responses to the items above:

1. I do need to review the drawing before releasing because I am the engineer in charge of the design.
2. I understand that I can not review everything, but for non-standard designs, which this is, I need to review the drawing.
3. I would be responsible for the design, not him.
4. That is not right, the shop needs to follow the drawings and we need to check the work to make sure they are.

We ended my addressing of the issue with this: I would get to review and fix the drawings on my own time, and I had to learn to let things go. I need to be more of a team player and trust that the designer/modeler and he can finish the drawings without me.

I ended up staying late and reviewing the changes made to the drawing packaged and making sure all the required design details were present; fixing drawings where the required design details were removed or missed.

I am trying to write this as unbiased as I can, but I am really upset about this. I did not seal & sign the drawings because the deck is going into an industrial system; I usually only seal & sign drawings when requested, or when required by a city/state or regulatory body. I was also really frustrated and did not even think about sealing & signing them at the time. I am concerned that certain design details will be omitted because of the shop not thinking they are required. When this happens I will not have the support of my manager to amend them.

Am I off base here? This is really turning my gut and making me feel bad. I an not a confrontational person, and it has been a continuous uphill battle at my new workplace. I have not had these issues at other companies I have worked for. I do not know what I am doing wrong, so any thoughts are welcomed.

-K

 

[wroggent]

I’d start looking for another job.

 

[TheTick]

Bosses usually play the "team player" card when the team is up to no good.

 

[GregLocock]

Is your manager a PE, and stamping the drawings? If so you have a turf war. If not, then you need to explain to him what the legal situation is.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[tygerdawg]

Most unfortunate.
Tick's comment is profound and matches my experience.

New & Only Engineer? Then the company culture is ignorant of the purpose, restrictions, and role of Engineers. You must evangelize and communicate, else it will be bidness as usual and it will make you grind your teeth in frustration.

Out of all of the challenges and aggravations in three decades, having some stupid goober flash a charming smile and wink at me and say "aw

http://www now,

don' worry it'll be awright" really twists my spine. This culture must be adjusted.

The game of Team Player Subversion works both ways. One method I've used is go behind the Idiot Manager's back directly to the shop people and communicate how important it is for them to follow the design to the letter. There will be resistance. Learn & practice how to influence their behavior while being professional, kind, and polite. Perhaps there will be a time when you can trust the competence of the designer. There will be bumps in the road.

If no progress is made and you're branded as a self-righteous persnickety pain in the neck ("not a team player"), then wroggent's comment is also profound.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[CWB1]

Your boss is 100% correct. You are working under the industrial exemption, therefore your license and stamp are irrelevant. Your title is also irrelevant. If the boss wanted himself, a designer, or even the janitor to release prints that is his/her's prerogative. There are processes and standards that SHOULD be followed for quality/$$$ reasons such as having the engineer that did the work check their prints, but there is no NEED to do so.

Take the emotion out of your work and understand your role then go apologize to the boss for making a mountain of nothing.

 

[msquared48]

Professionally, I never have bought the "Industrial Exemption" clause referred to here.

To me that is just an excuse to abuse the system, similar to the legal immunity for diplomats.

I used to work for a public utility and we had professional engineers with the checks and balances and oversight. We never did apply for permits, but the projects were overdesigned too.

Having a professional engineering license does imply professional responsibilities we have to maintain as engineers.

If you practice engineering but are unlicensed, that is a different matter.

Sounds like your boss does not want, or need, a professional engineer, with all the checks and balances that go along with the position.

Give him enough rope and he will hang himself. Seen it too many times before...

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[CWB1]

Sounds like your boss does not want, or need, a professional engineer, with all the checks and balances that go along with the position.

Such as?

In reality MANY licensed PEs operate with fewer checks and balances than the OP's employer, many with none in fact. His supervisor conducted a print review and I'd suspect have design and other peer reviews also as a matter of quality and ethics. Conversely, many PEs (including some on this board) proudly operate one-person firms without peer review, which is a violation of basic ethics, nvm common sense fallibility.

 

[TheTick]

Two words: fiduciary duty.

 

[Jboggs]

My father, an accomplished engineer himself, gave me the best advice I've ever gotten AFTER I graduated from engineering school. He said, "Now that your academics are over your education can begin." Consider this episode just another class in that ongoing school called "hard knocks". If you don't learn from it you have wasted it. What can you learn? Well one thing is that you aren't going to change other people. You can only change yourself. Your career will be filled with all types of people, and the more of them you can work successfully with the better off you will be. What's another thing you can learn here? Its never a good career move to piss off your boss. Even when he's wrong, he's still your boss. And he's not ever going to admit that he was wrong. Not gonna happen.

You could leave but I think that would just be running from the problem. It would also be running from the opportunity to learn how to deal with it. Since this kind of thing happens in the real world it would be more valuable to learn how to successfully deal with it than to pretend it won't happen again if you just go somewhere else.

I definitely believe in standing up for yourself, but it doesn't always have to be confrontational. That rarely ends well.

You could tell yourself that the boss believes more in you than you do. But I doubt that's the case. He's simply responding to a perceived schedule, and trying to make it sound good afterwards. Human nature. he is also taking responsibility for the design, but I wouldn't take that to the bank.

Here's what you've learned - he will review drawings when they are ready whether you are or not. Now that you know he will do this, put that step in your project plans and schedule. Always try to arrange your schedule so that you ARE available when it will be time to review the drawings.

There are other things you can do here too. Let the designer know you would like a chance to look at the drawings before they go out if possible. The point is this - do what you can to defuse a potentially difficult situation before it occurs. Become very good at that! It will pay off in the future.

Another type of individual you will work with is the one that always seems to have a chip on their shoulder. Always looking for some slight, some excuse to become angry or upset or offended. Be the OPPOSITE of that person.

You may indeed have to leave a job at some point. It happens. Just make sure you have learned everything you can first! And I mean the non-technical even more than the technical!

 

[monkeydog]

Well said Jboggs

 

[berkshire]

Keigi
If you can find a chapter in your area , join the national management association and take some of their leadership courses in your own time , you do not have to be a manager to do that, and no you are not going over to the dark side, as some here believe.
These courses teach you how to deal with difficult people . In this case it is your boss, it can just as easily be somebody working under you who you cannot avoid and cannot fire. Check it out .
Now I know there are some here who will jump all over me for this.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[spciesla]

Being the only engineer and new to the company is definitely a "red-flag" to me.

 

[GregLocock]

or an opportunity.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[ctopher]

I couldn't work there. I agree it's a "red-flag". Your the engineer, you are responsible for the design, not your manager. Your manager is responsible for you and your actions, you were hired to do the engineering of the products not the secretarial work.

Chris, CSWP
SolidWorks '17
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[casseopeia]

My response delivered with a heavy dose of stink eye, "Well OK, let's hope no one split the threaded rods to make threading the nut easier like the contractor did for the Hyatt Kansas City walkway. It didn't work out so well for him. Have a nice day."

But I'm old and cranky so I will give you the sarcastic and passive-aggressive answer.

If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.

 

[CWB1]

Per the OP his employer has designers and some sort of an "engineering dept," so they must be doing something right and have some decent technical knowledge and ability. I'm sure we all know "engineers" with little formal education who can do everything but heavy analysis, which isnt required in many positions/companies bc the product hasnt changed much in decades or the "engineer" is simply following code.

Not sure why the subject of checking the shop's quality is even a discussion here, that's their business, not engineering's unless asked to support.

 

[CheckerHater]

Couldn't be your company simply doesn't have production flow in place?
Even the most laid-back and informal companies have some kind of a chain: "after you finish you give it to this guy" sort of thing
I guess you have to establish your place in that chain by convincing everybody that it is really important.

"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future