Reasons for Losing your PE 12

[tuggertoo]

In our state, NM, engineers can lose their license if convicted of a felony. Do you believe that the type of crime should be considered? Or just being a "felon" is enough to lose your license. Our situation involves a soon to be former partner who has plead guilty to tax evasion. His hearing in front of the board is scheduled for November 1, 2007. If he loses his license, can it ever be reinstated?

 

[zdas04]

Can it be reinstated? Probably. Will it be reinstated? Not a chance in hell. NM recently instituted an Ethics PDH requirement (I'm in Albuquerque this evening for a class in Design Law tomorrow to try to satisfy it) and with that emphisis I just can't see them ever sticking their neck out to reinstate a convicted felon.

David

 

[tuggertoo]

Even if the felony is for tax evasion?

 

[BJC]

No only cand you loose it for a felony I have seen suspension notices in a couple of state bulletins for being a deadbeat dad. If your not paying your child support your license can be suspended.
I'm all for it. If some jerk won't pay his child support the rest of us do via somekind of public assistance.

 

[TheTick]

Tax evasion would likely be viewed by the board as an issue of integrity (lack of).

 

[wes616]

Just because you loose your license, doesn't mean he'll never engineer again.... contrarily maybe this person should work under someone for the remainder of his career. To keep him honest.

Wes C.
------------------------------
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

 

[KENAT]

'pled guilty to tax evasion' This would suggest the person is dishonest which to me seems a pretty good reason to lose PE.

Generally I'd think being convicted of a felony implies that you will break acepted laws.

Transpose this into engineering and it says you may break accepted codes etc.

So losing your PE not unreasonable.

Now of course there are probably some exceptions. For instance, if someone killed another person who'd been molesting their child, then I' have no problem with them still practicing engineering. However, this is my viewpoint which many would disagree with and the person has still shown a willingness to break the law.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

I stand on the other side of the fence on this one.

People make mistakes, a system that does not accept this is irrational. If the felon pays for their crime and shows remorse, why punish beyond the punishment for the crime?

VOD

 

[Ashereng]

I am on the side of if convicted of a felony, you lose your PE for good.

I feel that I do not want a "tax evader" to design my next job - I don't want to take the chance that he/she may or may not cut some corners to come in under budget.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[BJC]

In most state ex-felons can't vote, can't own guns, can't do a lot of things. What's wrong with can't be an engineer? Registration laws exist to protect the public.

Lawyers I believe are automatically disbarred on conviction of a felony.
There should be ways for everybody to get back it, but the return should not be automatic.

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

Hi BJC,

You assume the system is right.

Regards

VOD

 

[GregLamberson]

I'll chip in with Ashereng & BJC - you gotta draw the line somewhere, drawing it at felon is reasonably lenient in my opinion. You certainly don't want to open the Pandora's box of trying to develop criteria for shades of a felony - the laws already done that, it's black & white - a felony or a misdemeanor.

There's a big difference in tax avoidance and tax evasion. Most of us are into tax avoidance, myself included, but moving in to tax evasion is a whole different ball game - it does call character into play.



Greg Lamberson, BS, MBA
Consultant - Upstream Energy
Website:

http://www.oil-gas-consulting.com

 

[KENAT]

"People make mistakes, a system that does not accept this is irrational. If the felon pays for their crime and shows remorse, why punish beyond the punishment for the crime?"

There's sometimes a difference between punishment and consequence. Losing PE is a consequence not a punishment.

In the right circumstance should the person be forgiven, sure. Does that mean they don't have to face the consequences? I don't believe so.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

Hi KENAT,

I agree with you there are consequences with every action, however the consequence must be related to the action or crime.

Regards

VOD

 

[EddyC]

I tend to think of crimes as 'Violent" and "Non-violent". I don't think that all felonies are the same, so I don't think that all PEs convicted of crimes should be punished equally. If you take a look at politicians, many of them get a slap on the wrist when they break the law. Remember that Marion Barry got re-elected?

 

[Ashereng]

VOD,

I agree. One of the requirements of being a PE is to abide by the assocation's ethics code. Violating the code of ethics is, in most states, grounds for losing one's PE status.

EddyC,

I also agree. Someone who commits homicide kills a single person. Enron destroyed the lifes of thousands (plus those of Arthur Anderson). Who is to say which "crime" is more devastating and should be punished more severly? In the meantime, I feel that both should be grounds for losing one's PE.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

Returning to the subject engineer in NM, I hope that the board determining this engineer's future considers this front and center.

Regards

VOD

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

I read over the New Mexico Engineering and Surveying Act and under 61-23-24.

A. The board may suspend, refuse to renew or revoke the certificate of licensure, impose a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), place on probation for a specific period of time with specific conditions or reprimand any professional engineer who is found by the board to have:

(9) been convicted of a felony;

So ultimately this is subject to the board by the key word "may".

We all await the Board's decision.

 

[csd72]

I think a blanket ban on all felons is a bit over the top. I can think of many situations where you may make a mistake in life even if you arent really a bad person.

I also strongly disagree with the rule that felons cant vote. What if the particular law that they fell foul of is discriminatory against people of their particular background. The people who the law discriminates against will have less and less non-crims to vote for their rights.

csd

 

[DRC1]

The problem is that in most states once you are a convicted felon, your ability to sign or endorse documents can be significantly limited by law.Obviously a problem for sealing drawings.