Recent Engineering Debacles 7

[hidalgoe]

HellO:

What have been the results of recent engineering debacles, like Boston's Big Dig concrete section that fell and killed some folks in a car or Katrina meant for PE's as far as liability and ethics are concerned?

 

[moltenmetal]

Yes, people are killed as a result of engineering gone awry. It's always a tragedy and we engineers always strive to do better.

But if anywhere near the number of people were killed as a result of engineering errors as are killed by MEDICAL errors, there'd be a Royal Commission on the subject in a heartbeat...

A little perspective goes a long way!

 

[PeterStock]

Doctors errors kill one patient at a time. Engineering errors can kill in greater numbers.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[unclesyd]

How about gas pedals, so far it's been one at time since last August.

 

[PeterStock]

True, but one error (or series of errors more likly) caused Toyota's problem.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[IRstuff]

Deming is probably turning in his grave about Toyota...

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[JLSeagull]

On the surface it appears that Toyota stepped up to the plate quite well. They found a problem. Their initial diagnosis was simple but wrong. They stopped sales of the defective vehicles. They are going to make good on the problem.

Ford quality improved lots over time too. However 10 years ago the news was covered with the Firestone mess. I rented a trailer a couple of years ago. The U-Haul agent first verified that I would not be using a Ford to pull the trailer.

I have owned each of the above and currently drive a Buick SUV and my spouse drives a Buick sedan. I can assure that GM quality is improved but not close to my expectations of Toyota.

 

[unclesyd]

I have to disagree slightly with the previous post. My stepdaughter's son-in-law bought a subject vehicle with his year end bonus in December. The vehicle was made in the October and it has it has malfunctioned twice and is now parked. According to the news the problem was realized in August even though there are reports of earlier incidents.
I listened to one report that stated that the company was working on the problem in September. He has been told by his very large dealer that any help will be 8 to 10 weeks out at a minimum.
I've been trying to catch the news today as the head of of the US operation was supposed to have an interview to explain things to the owners and clear the air.
I think as stated by one automotive reported it appears that Toyota put everything in the push to be the biggest car manufacturer around. Automotive executives have dumbed down to the level of a used car salesman, tell them anything they want to hear and mean nothing.

 

[btrueblood]

Priam,

A native Yankee, but I'd heard of two of your listed incidents. The second I'd not heard of, but the name sounded vaguely familar...a Google search turned up "Alexander Kielland", a floating oil platform in the North Sea...I'd heard about that too...is it the incident to which you're referring?

 

[IRstuff]

Supposedly, that Toyota problem has been around for a while; I wonder if it has anything to do with when they started production in the US...

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[PriamEngineering]

btrueblood, Yes sorry, a fat finger moment.

regards

Derek

http://www.priamengineering.co.uk

 

[unclesyd]

IRstuff,
No I don't think so, as they mention other countries especially India.

The fix is a "precision" piece of metal that attaches to pivot of the accelerator petal inside the car.
Evidently the big concern among the car geeks and aficionados is how could this keep the car from accelerating. Everything I've watched is that company officials dance around the question of possible computer problems.
The phrase that scares a lot of people is "you have to trust us on this" referring to the question of a computer glitch.

 

[IRstuff]

The metal is supposed to keep the pedal from sticking in the floored position; this relates to the supposed problem of the floor mats keeping the pedal from coming back up.

Whether this is the actual solution or not remains to be seen.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[btrueblood]

Did not Audi suffer similar problems about 15-20 years ago? I recall reading that the problem then was that they hadn't accounted for the fat feet of affluent American women buying their cars, or some such.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Maybe because of high heels? While I agree the US has a higher percentage of overweight people, I can't imagine that weight difference equates to foot sizes so different it ends in stuck pedals.

Maybe I joke I just didn't get, bt?

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[GregLocock]

I think Audi decided that mostly people were just pushing too hard on the wrong pedal when they panicked.

The Toyota pedal fix reduces the (deliberately induced) friction in the pedal assy, by preventing the friction blades from engaging as deeply. These are designed to reduce the required pedal pressure when maintaining a constant pedal angle, but through wear or environmental factors or whatever the friction can increase too much. Hoiking the pedal back up with your toe would also be a 100% fix.

There are continual mumblings about software problems as well.






Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[unclesyd]

From the news today.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-wozniak3-2010feb03,0,3057333.story

I can not understand how a stuck accelerator pedal in something less than the wide open position will cause the throttle to go wide open and the vehicle to accelerate. Yes I know it happens in race cars but only when you have pedal pushed to the floorboard. Also on some old Stroberg Single Barrel carburetors if the linkage came off the throttle plate would go wide open, corrected by a small spring.

 

[GregLocock]

Let's see.

Woz's car isn't part of the recall as it doesn't have the wrong throttle pedal.

He has a problem with the cruise control acting up, not the throttle pedal.

The circumstances he describes are not the ones that 'everybody' else is complaining about.

Still, Toyota are going to have a look at it. That's nice for him.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[MacGyverS2000]

syd,

Most people's reaction to s stuck pedal (at any angle) is to stomp it and see if it unsticks. Regardless of that, if the DBW system decides to go full-throttle, it really doesn't matter at what angle the gas pedal is being pressed.

Woz's story is also starting to get banged around a bit. He posted his method for making the cruise control go wonky and some are leaning towards operator error. I've read their reasoning, but I'm not sure if I buy it as a possible cause of user error. The naysayers are suggesting his repeated pressing of the accel button is faster than what the tiny Prius can keep up with considering its small power level. I don't use cruise control very often, but any time I have, it has stopped trying to accelerate the moment I stopped pressing the button... pressing the button 5 times when it could only accelerate through 3 presses worth of speed meant I only got the 3 speed increase, not 2 more over the next several seconds.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[DanDel]

Back to the Boston Big Dig Tunnel collapse - My understanding is that the manufacturer of the epoxy was sued and settled; even though they provided two different kinds of epoxy, and the wrong type was used for the ceiling lugs which collapsed.

Either the engineers specified the wrong epoxy, or the installers used the wrong epoxy (neither of which were sued); how is it the manufacturer's fault?

 

[JLSeagull]

"On the surface it appears that Toyota stepped up to the plate quite well. They found a problem. Their initial diagnosis was simple but wrong. They stopped sales of the defective vehicles. They are going to make good on the problem.

As I read more regarding this Toyota issue I support them less. Regard the previous utterance to be withdrawn, recanted or whatever the proper phrase might be.