recharge a battery while in use

[2571]

Good morning everyone,
I have an idea but not sure how to start. We use 36VDC forklifts here at our facility. In attempts to reduce the amount of time it takes to change a battery and get more run time out of the battery is it possiable to design a charger to run off the batteries power but put a charge back in the battery while it is in use. I had thought of some sort of generator but not sure where to go from here, We use 36V 1250amp/hr batteries. If this is a goofy idea please be kind.

thank you for your time
2570

 

[ScottyUK]

Unless you are breaking the laws of thermodynamics, which it is generally accepted to be quite difficult to do, your charger running from the battery can't produce more than it consumes. So if it was totally lossless, the energy going back into the battery would be exactly equal to the energy being taken out by the charger. A lossless charger hasn't been invented yet, so the energy going back in will always be less than being taken out of the battery, and thus your battery will slowly discharge, not recharge.

If you do manage to make this work, you will be a very rich man!

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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Scotty, we HAVE to be missing some key element here, like the forklift stays within 20' of the charging station, the charger is a portable gas unit quickly fitted/unfitted, etc. Otherwise, this question holds no more use than any other perpetual motion machine idea...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Beentheir]

Electric motors tend to be 80 percent efficient or better. If you want to make the battery last longer you need to go after the inefficient stuff



Use the law of conservation of energy.


Rather than friction brakes you use reactive brakes.

The spinning magnetic field acts like a generator and takes that energy and puts it back into the battery.

 

[2571]

Beentheir,
are you refer to regentitive braking? If not please exsplain reactive brakes.

2571

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Yes, he's talking about regenerative.

2571, If you're asking about a way to charge the battery without getting energy from someplace else (a gas-powered engine, a cord to the wall, etc.), please let this thread die now and save us all a lot of time. What you're asking for is not physically possible.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Beentheir]

How else do you conserve energy?

You reduce your loses by conserving.

 

[2571]

macgyvers2000,
What does this mean,
Everyone has had a great idea at one time or another in their life, but most are forgotten, never given a chance to materialize. After many frustrating years of writing those ideas down but having no outlet to see them realized, a change was inevitable. Products began to appear, but their form was rough... no cohesive force was behind them other than an intense interest to design and build. Found this on the web at a sight that appeared to be a well organized company. That I'm sure does hinge on the impossiables.

2571

P.S. Giving up is not an option.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

2571,

Those "other" products you mention, rough form or not, made it to fruition because they were physically possible. What you're asking for defies the laws of physics/thermodynamics and therefore is not possible in any shape or form. This isn't a matter of "It's been too expensive in the past" or "Someone just hasn't found the right way yet", it's just not physically possible, no matter the amount of money or thought you put into it.


Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[BrianG]

2571,
your only option appears to be a small add-on petrol or diesel-powered generator fitted to each forklift which runs continuously to charge the battery during low battery drain periods (makes a sort of hybrid powered forklift). Even this could prove difficult to get right if you are trying to avoid an overnight charge on the batteries; to specify the generator correctly you would need to have an idea of the time available for recharging (i.e. duty cycle of typical forklift running time versus stationary times) (remember, ampere-hours in x charging inefficiency = ampere-hours out)

Otherwise the only way to keep the batteries topped up is to return the forklifts to a charging station between jobs.

 

[Beentheir]

BrianG is correct for portable as long as you are in an open enviornment. Stinky motor and carbon monoxide in a close space are not exceptable. Know your application.

I also believe (maybe wrong) that electric power is far less expensive than fossil fuels.

An interesting point you mention is replacing the battery. I can only quess that this occurs when the battery dies. You have an AC/DC converter already mounted on the fork lift, correct?

 

[melone]

2571,

While I don't agree with how some of my fellow members have phrased their responses, at the core they are correct in their statements. Energy in = Energy out. There is no getting around that.

 

[ScottyUK]

melone might also have said

energy in = (useful energy out + losses)

Everything in the real world has losses.



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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[VEBill]

Thermodynamics 101:
You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't quit.

 

[2dye4]

VE

That belongs on a poster in my cube.

It can be applied to most problems.

thanks

 

[IRstuff]

2571,

Perhaps you should look at Steorn:

http://www.steorn.net/en/technology.aspx?p=5

They seem to be on the same wavelength as you

TTFN

 

[rmw]

It was a goofy idea and in the main, they were kind with Melone being the kindest.

rmw

 

[pennpoint]

Coincidence or not, someone (think government agency) is going to try using Hybred material movers (think forklifts ect.) at the loading docks of long Beach and San pedro, CA. Just to find out if theres any savings there, then they want to investigate airport towabouts and other vehicles.
Sounds to me someone JUST heard the word hybred and wants it to fit everywhere.




Best regards
pennpoint

 

[davidbeach]

Hybrid can work very well for something that needs a decent amount of power in short bursts and very little power between those bursts. Run a small engine that can produce something in excess of the average power required and run it at a constant load, storing the power in batteries. Then use the batteries to supply the occasional loads.

 

[fribby]

That link to Steorn sounds a bit freaky. efficiency coefficient in excess of 100%!!

You would think that if they had indeed created this technology they wouldn't have this much trouble getting it externally verified though.