Reducing electric bills

[wsco]

I need opinions concerning the device mentioned in an article that our Exec. VP gave to reduce our electrical bill(link below).

http://www.money.cnn.com/magazines/fsb/fsb_archive/2006/05/01/8376209/?cnn=yes

The article is about a company, Gridpoint (

http://www.Gridpoint.com),

that sells a device which stores electrical energy during off peak hours for later use. We are a manufacturing, laboratory, and office facility. The information I have about this device seems like a good idea for our office and some of the laboratory areas (120 VAC). I do not see this device helping our manufacturing areas (460 VAC 3phase). It seems like this device is a UPS system with a Pentium chip.

Also, is there a 'ENG-TIPS FORUMS' on energy (gas and electricity) savings?


Thank you in advance.

 

[jghrist]

Color me skeptical. It does sound like a UPS system, but a file cabinet sized UPS would not have the capacity to shift much load from peak to off-peak hours.

 

[stevenal]

http://www.gridpoint.com/products/protect/

I am also skeptical. They are describing a UPS, but only use the word on their glossary page. New marketing plan for an old product.

 

[BJC]

First step- Find out what difference in rates the local utility will give you (if in fact they will )for different times of day.
Second step record your present usage.
Step 3 calculate the savings (if any) you get from shifting the time you take the power.
I suspect the payback period will be in the hundreds of years.
You can probably do more good by upgrading your lighting system and replacing old inefficient eauipment.

 

[IRstuff]

Complete confusion on the part of the media. The Protect system is obviously a UPS. The Connect system uses renewable energy sources that potentially allow a home user to sell energy to the utility during the day at higher prices, which partially pays for net usage at off-peak times.

TTFN

 

[billycan]

This concept is absurd. It sounds like an annuity for a battery manufacturer. I have been involved in the power quality industry in Fl for 20 years, and gel or VRLA batteries are the LEAST reliable part of a system. This concept appears to be more sizzle than substance.

 

[waross]

In years past, some companies did quite well doing power factor correction and charging a fee based on a percentage the money saved each month over the next few years.
If this is any good, the vendors should be happy to be paid a percentage of the savings. There should be free replacement of the batteries included.
respectfully

 

[jraef]

Well as I see it, here is the crux of the error in the article right here,

But once those new meters are in place, prepare for a shock as utilities raise prices whenever demand rises.

This is a misinterpretation of TOU (Time Of Use) billing practices being proposed all over. The goal on that is to be able to offer INCENTIVE pricing for off-peak useage, not fluctuate the pricing throughout the day along with demand. I'm sure the conspiracy theorists want to believe that the utilities will want a floating price schedule, but that just isn't going to happen. TOU billing is a benefit to those who CAN shift energy consumption to off peak hours, but that will be a small percentage of users IMHO.


Aside from that, if you are a commercial user, how much battery power are you willing to have on hand to go off-grid at peak hours anyway? I once did a study for Costco, a large membership warehouse store, on putting UPS's just on their cash registers to hold them up long enough to finish the transactions of people already in line during a power failure (to keep the revenue and avoid the labor of putting all that material back). 20 minutes of backup on 36 registers was going to cost more than they were willing to spend.

wsco,
To address your question, as of right now this is NOT going to save you money unless you are in one of the few areas that offer TOU billing incentives. Even if you are, you need to take a long hard look at how long you can be off-grid during peak demand times. Now if it is an option, you may want to consider a micro-turbine power plant and use a UPS like this just to handle the transition back and forth. That is a very workable solution.

Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read faq731-376

 

[nayden]

Well, if you believe in magic or other extraordinary capabilities purchasing this device I think, to be more cost-effective you should reschedule your consumption plan for good.

 

[Senselessticker]

I’d to wait and order this product from the infomercial advertisement! This is a scam. Its just a UPS.

 

[IRstuff]

The company's website is quite clear that the product is a UPS. It's the news article that's totally honked up. The article is actually refering to the company's other product, which is an energy management system specifically designed to handle supplying power back to the grid at peak rate times using alternate energy sources such as solar or wind.

All in all, the product line is quite mundane. Makes you wonder what the reporter was smoking at the time he wrote the article.

TTFN

 

[jraef]

It's an addictive weed that almost all reporters smoke, called "What-ever Weed", Latin name Oblivium Deadlineus. It makes them oblivious to facts when rushing to meet deadlines.

I once did a speech on using soft starters for pumping applications. A trade journal reporter attended, then asked if I would consent to her publishing it in the form of an article in her magazine. I OK'd the idea, but I had to edit it about 20 times before I would approve what she wrote. Then the editor cut 1/2 of it out yet left in some of the graphics related to the removed text, which made it completely non sequitur and confusing. Unfortunately it ended up with only my name on it!

Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read faq731-376

 

[itsmoked]

Man jraef what a horror story. Gads. Please tell me they both had mysterious accidents a month after the article came out.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[jraef]

I don't know, I never had any further contact with them.

To top it all off, in that speech I was asked a question from the audience about why soft starters are necessary, and I used an analogy of being in the shower when your wife flushes the toilet to illustrate voltage drop (I know, it's terrible, but it was extemporaneous and I was speaking to pump people). I edited that quote out of that article, but some time later the same publisher did another general article on soft starters and used that quote and unfortunately credited it to me by name. For a few years whenever anyone Googled my name they saw the synopsis by Google which was that toilet reference, and it hit on about 30 different websites. Thank goodness the article went out of print so it has finally fallen off of Google!

Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read faq731-376