Reinforcement requirements on branch connections

[billb12]

I am having difficulty determining what would be required for reinforcement on a 4" carbon steel branch connection (Sockolet) to a 4" carbon steel sched 160 run, or if this is even allowable. The design pressure is 3330psig. The client requires this to be B31.3 compliant.
I ran the calculation listed in 304.3.3(b) which gave me A1 = 2.334. I am not sure what this is telling me. Is this the right calculation to use?

 

[Kiwi2671]

billb12,
Something does not sound right.
4" Sch 160 run pipe with a 4" socket weld ?
Why would you not install a 4" tee ?
Cheers,
Kiwi

 

[billb12]

Thank you, I agree with you about using a tee. My client has requested that we use a sockolet. They were not 100% clear why they want this (proprietary reasons I believe). I am recommending a tee but need show them that a sockolet is not practical.

 

[moltenmetal]

Just TRY to find a 4x4" soc-o-let FIRST. NObody does socket welding at 4" size. That'll be another very practical reason NOT to do this. The tee is the right solution.

 

[metengr]

I think the OP probably meant a Bonney Forge weld-o-let and not a socket fitting. A weld-o-let has inherent reinforcement for this type of application. Although, a tee would be the better approach from a welding and design standpoint.

 

[moltenmetal]

Yes, you CAN find a 4" x 4" butt weld-o-let.

No, you should NOT use one, unless there is a very, very good reason not to do the right thing and cut in a tee.

The desire to save 1 weld is not a good enough reason.

 

[billb12]

Thank you all very much. I will try to convince our client to go that route. I agree that the tee makes more sense and, if you think about it, would there be any real savings based on the amount of filler metal you have to deposit on an o-let that size? Not to mention the distortion issues. Thanks again for your comments.

 

[Kiwi2671]

moltenmetal,
After my first response I looked again and Bonney Forge make sockolets up to 6" outlet size (Cl 3000) and they also make 4" and 6" size to size sockolets so somebody is welding 4" sockolets on to 4" pipe somewhere.
Still think the Tee is the best idea for a variety of reasons - distortion being the main one,
Cheers,
Kiwi

 

[MJCronin]

If you carefully read the Bonney Forge Literature, sockolets, weldolets, sweepolets etc were designed as per the ASME codes and tested so that additonal reinforcement is not required for the range of temperatures and pressures that are acceptable for the adjoining pipe.

The calculation that you refer to does not have to be performed..... However,

Bonney Forge, WFI and others put millions of dollars into this research and testing. Thier quest for quality and unique designs were protected by intellectual property laws.....they then went out of business as the Chinese, Koreans and every other low-wage, third world country copied the designs and sold them as Bonney Forge products.

This is the future of american engineered products....

 

[DSB123]

MJCronin,
You have it spot on there. Maybe it will change when "bean-counters" are hoofed out of running engineering companies and the engineer has the ruling say based on quality rather than cost!!!!

 

[moltenmetal]

My experience is that lots of things exist in tables and have model numbers, but you need to check stock or delivery to know what people actually use.

I've seen 4" SW flanges before. I've even seen 6" threaded flanges. I guess suppliers will machine a Frankenstein monster out of a blank for you if you really want it. Doesn't make it sensible to use though. I have no problem with SW at 2" and below, but I draw the line well below 4" sch160 for sure.

I share Kiwi2671's concern about distortion using the butt weld-o-let instead of the tee, even if for some reason it's deemed necessary: by the time you're finished filling in that weld bevel to the mfgs' recommended dimensions, which to develop the full 3000# rating you definitely need to do, you will likely have a banana rather than a pipe.