Relay equipment Test 1

[jairo]

What is the best between Omicron 256 and ISA DRTS 6

 

[lz5pl]

Omicron - has probably the best software
ISA - much better price, also is not bad as hardware and software

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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[22574]

How about comparing to DOBLE F6150?

 

[lz5pl]

I have no experience with F6150, but here:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=156573&page=1

you can find more detailed comparisons.

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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[521AB]

For commissioning purposes, I can't avoid to mention Freja 300 (or 306). Still the simplicity and the relative independency from a PC are useful.
Consider also that FREJA has compensated binary outputs. When testing communication schemes or breaker failure it can be important.
I had to abandon the super (and good) Omicron some days ago for the old Freja (21 if I remember the name, DOS driven) because of that.
Not only: the possibility of self calibrating after the transportation is very good and gives you the feed-back that everything is Ok. Not bad.

Of course Omicron and ISA have also their advantages.
Have a look at these closed threads also:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=143525&page=10

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=156573&page=4

 

[lz5pl]

521AB, do you have already Freja 306? We use Freja 300, local dealer told me that 306 will be available after several months. I am interested to upgrade, it should be cheaper than new 6-current Omicron or ISA.
By the way, I used in the past a test set from a small manufacturer (I don't like to mention it's name due to the very bad quality !), who used quite interesting idea for programming of BI's. Activation of BI can not only stop injection, but also stop dI/dt injection (freezing the current injected to last value) or jump to next programmed step, etc. Generally it was very convenient to create my own test routines for specific cases. But the unit was very unreliable and I decided not to by one for my company despite it was half price of Freja. I wonder why nobody of big manufacturers never implemented such options. Why we have 8 or 16 BI's if they can be programmed only to stop injection?

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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[slavag]

Hi.
For the 521AB ( and others , who work with IEC61850).
I read, that ISA add in DRTS6 Ethernet functionality for the IEC61850 testing.
"Why we have 8 or 16 BI's if they can be programmed only to stop injection? "
Hmm, maybe for connect few signals , for example contacts from protection ( R,S,T twice for the distance protection) and contact for the CB position for the AR cycle.
Best Regards.
Slava

 

[521AB]

" Why we have 8 or 16 BI's if they can be programmed only to stop injection? "

Several binary inputs in a test set:
Yes, you need to monitor for instance TRIPL1, L2 and L3. They do not only stop the injection, or the timer. They can allow you to pass or not to a next state in a sequence. This is quite normal in all test sets.

Several binary outputs in a test set:
you need to stat breaker failure at a certain time in the sequence, or you simulate carrier receive in testing communication schemes. Binary outputs should be time compensated, otherwise you get wrong results in the report. Only Freja does this, so far, and we are not talking about one or 2 milliseconds.. I am talking about 6 or 8 milliseconds that you don't know where they are coming from..

For the 61850 functionality you mention.
Generally speaking, verify carefully what you can do and what you cannot do, before taking decision. How to test (procedure, philosophy and meaning) a 61850 system is not clear yet.
I would wait some years before buying because of IEC 61850 features in one test set.

No. I don't have FREJA 306, but I have seen it, and soon I will have it. More than one Let's see what they have done there...

 

[521AB]

I forgot to say:
If you go to the Hannover Messe, you can see it (FREJ A306)

 

[lz5pl]

Probably I have missed something in Freja manuals. I will check more carefully programming of BI's. Thank you 521AB and Slava that you mentioned it !

Going to Hannover to see 306 will be a bit expensive experience. I will wait it to come here in Sofia

I hope Programma will try to compensate their slow development from recent years when they were under GE. I still remember how in mid'80's they sent a demo van with Freja 21 and how one young engineer (me!) looked on automatic testing of distance relay - task which took me one full day with my electromechanical tester. I never dreamed I will use such high-tech toy one day! I will be glad for these guys if they succeed to come again in first line of modern testers.


It is our Easter this week, so my best wishes for nice holidays to everybody who celebrate it.

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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[slavag]

Hi.
Plamen, congratulation with Easter!!!!
Something new for me:
Programma isn't under GE now ( yess, yessss ), or Double bouth them.
Regards.
Slava.
PS
521AB, I don't think about bay tester with 61850 functionality, btw, I don't think about application with 61850, I prefer wait few years too.
Once we was pioneer with other protocol, enough!!!

 

[lz5pl]

Programma is part of Megger now. Let's hope for faster development.

------------------------
It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[521AB]

I don't think you need to read the manual for Freja. I have managed everything wothout reading the manual, so far.
If you go in the sequence, and try to click on the "buttons" associated to the status of BI (they are RED, if you click they become RED/BLACK, click again they are black, and maybe gray if I remember, you understand how it works. Simple.

 

[521AB]

Regarding the first question from Jairo:

"What is the best between Omicron 256 and ISA DRTS 6 "

I think that it depends on what you want to do. And as we usually do not talk about what relay is better, we should also avoid to say what test equipment is better.
But we can talk about what we believe is good and what we believe is bad, technically.

Generally speaking, I think you should always have more than one test set. The test equipment "world" doesn't follow any standard, as there is no standard describing how relays should be tested or what current and/or voltages should be injected to "simulate" a certain impedance etc.
So, sometimes it is very good if you can compare the results between two test sets, before blaiming the relay.

 

[DTR2011]

I checked one thing between Omicron and ISA. This I believe is very important consideration when testing transformer differential. The 256 has 2 independent neutral connections and ISA does not. When testing delta-wye transformer configurations this is an important consideration.

I also found out Omicron has new 356 test set, much more power than 256.

I think also to consider is what market are you in. In some places, 1A CT is standard and that makes the total current output easy. In 5A CT market, much more current and sometimes power (for mechanical relays) is required.

It is also careful to consider the 'convertable' current sources. This may be OK for lower currents, but is practically useless in 5A trafo diff schemes, when trying to test multi slope protections.

Cost is one thing but is also application knowlege of the test set vendor, quality of the constructions (HW and SW). Sving a little up front can cost a lot more over time.

 

[w800]

lz5pl, freja's BI can do everything that you mentioned before (stop injection; jump to next state, stop and freeze when ramping I, U, f, phase angles, exactly as you described in your earlier post.

 

[jakezep]

a few months ago we got a kocos ARTES 440 based on a recommendation from a manufacturer, and we love it. 10 sources, and the software is really cool when making test plans.

 

[521AB]

Smallgreek:

Regarding the 5A market and electromechanical relays, it can be interesting to know that FREJA 306 has 35 A output and up to 50 V rms.

Regarding the neutral connections you are talking about. What do you mean? And what are your concerns regarding testing DELTA / WYE transformers?

What are you testing? Sensitivity? Stability? Speed (trip time)?

 

[521AB]

The last about Freja, than we close this.
Can you imagine what can be done with an old Freja case?

No?

Have a look here..

http://www.panoramio.com/photos/original/4484117.jpg

P.S. Sometimes, it's nice to talk about something else or?