Relocated foreign vessels 10

[canecutter]

We have an owner/operator that wants to reuse and install here in the US some vessels fabricated in Germany under German codes. The vessels are in a low pressure application(3 bar) and are not steam drums/boiler vessels. The vessesl will be located in an acid plant. Our client wants to know if the vessels can be inspected and receive an ASME Section VIII code stamp. Is this possible and is it necessary?

 

[vesselfab]

as far as I know, a vessel has to be fabricated and inspected whenbuilt to be eligible for an ASME U stamp.

I have never heard of it being "after the fact"

 

[CodeRef]

Contact your jurisdiction of installation inspector or your insurance company inspector. They will know exactly what to do.
vesselfab is correct. These "may be" classified as "State Specials" or whatever term the jurisdiction prefers "if" it was to meet the approval from the jurisdiction.

 

[LSThill]

canecutter (Industrial)

If classified as "State Specials" calculation to be submited to jurisdiction "Chief Boiler Inspector"



L S THILL

 

[JohnBreen]

CodeJackal is exactly right.

It is not all that unusual to bring a "non-"U"-Stamp" vessel into a jurisdiction as a "State Special". However, it would have to be shown to the satisfaction of the Chief Inspector that the build quality and Code intent were appropriately met.

For example, in Pennsylvania (before the equipment is installed) you would contact the Chief Inspector (see the National Board web-site for a list of Chief Inspectors) for instructions and be prepared to address the following:

(1) Submission of a request to install the equipment, in a form prescribed by the department, to the department of Labor and Industry, Boiler Section.
(2) Furnishing of mill test reports of material to show compliance with the ASME Code or another code accepted by the department.
(3) Furnishing of calculations and stress analyses showing the maximum allowable working pressure under the ASME Code or another code accepted by the department. These stress analyses shall be certified by a registered professional engineer.
(4) If equipment is of welded construction, all seams that are required to be X-rayed by the ASME Code or another code accepted by the department shall be X-rayed.
(5) Establishment that welding meets requirements of the ASME Code or another code accepted by the department.
(6) Subjection of equipment to nondestructive examination or test that verifies structural integrity.
(7) All tests shall be made under the supervision of a Commonwealth-commissioned inspector or an individual holding (8) Submission of a data sheet comparable to the appropriate ASME data report form and certified by a National Board commissioned inspector.
(9) If mill test reports, names of welders or other required information cannot be produced, the department may, in its discretion, accept other documentation.
(10) Payment of a special equipment application fee.
(11) Compliance with all other requirements of this section.

If all requirements are met, a "State Special" plate would be affixed to the equipment by an AI. Other States and Provinces will likely have similar requirements.

Regards, John

 

[metengr]

The only additional bit of clarification to the above is that a State Special is presented to and voted upon by the Boiler Board of Rules. The Chief does not act alone in this endeavor, in most states.

 

[LSThill]

Dose The State of Texas have "State Specials"??

Please Advise

L S THILL

 

[metengr]

Not for unfired pressure vessels, because Texas does not regulate pressure vessels.

 

[weeeds]

metengr
Does this mean than anyone can bring in and use any type of vessel with no concerns other than the potential liabilities if there is a failure? Is Texas still the Wild West?

 

[vesselfab]

not really wild
we have museums, theaters, restaraunts and everything

just like a real civilized place

I think that you will find that most company's insurance plans require proof of insurability, which here in the states, is ASME code stamp.

If the state regulated, and the would accept and allow "these State Specials", then we would have all kinds of vessels coming in.

BTW, I was intigued with the "state special" as I have never seen or heard of one. But then again, I am a builder and not a user of vessels.

 

[MJCronin]

canecutter...

Be very careful and mindful when a "non-ASME" pressure vessels are brought into a facility, regardless of the source of manufacture.

Exiting things have happened in Kentucky when a new pressure vessel owner decided no to have his vessels inspected and to rely on his staff for manual pressure relief (Yup....thar's no sense in payin extra $ for a relief valve when me an Cooter kin watch the gauge....)

Read Section 4.2.2 of this report

http://www.csb.gov/completed_investigations/docs/CSB_DDWilliamsonReport.pdf

Pressure vessels someties get traded between divisons of a process chemical company and can repeatedly cross state lines. What will happen to the registration and inspection of this vessel when there is no ASME or National Board to rely upon ?

You know as well as I do that all of the German vessel records will be either lost or thrown away by the new company owners... just a couple of years from now.

The opinions of an old crank.....

-MJC

 

[stanweld]

In Texas, We have performed repairs on "State Specials" for unfired steam generators and some vessels manufactured to Codes other than ASME; e.g., British Srandards and AD Merkblatt.

 

[Sid7]

I have no expertise in vessels. But hope you dont RF me for this post!
Why pre-owned vessels "state specials" in first place?
For sure these must be cheap, shortest delivery time. But given the hassles as mentioned by JohnBreen above how does it compare to using a pre-owned/used vessel instead of a made to order vessel?

I agree every case will be judged on its merit and demerits. But is this a popular economic trend for plant owners?

Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.

 

[metengr]

Sid7;
I sense some confusion in your follow-up post. State Specials are vessels where the code of construction is either non-ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code, another International standard or an unknown standard. Pre-owned or new vessel has nothing to do with qualifying as a State Special.

State Specials are carefully evaluated by the Chief Inspector and his/her Board of Boiler Rules. It is difficult in many cases to have an approved State Specials, as mentioned above.

 

[Sid7]

metengr

Thanks for the clarification. So what I understood is that any (new or old) vessel with the code of construction other than the ASME BPV Section VIII, may need the state special status unless exempt by the state? Is this correct?
cheers

Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.

 

[metengr]

Yes.

 

[MJCronin]

Sid..

Within the state statutesof each state, there must be a definition of terms...

Kentucky defines a "state special" thus:

"State special" means a boiler or pressure vessel which carries neither the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code symbol nor National Board stamping but has been accepted by the Department of Housing, Buildings and Construction upon advice of the board as meeting standards equivalent to the applicable ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code, pursuant to 815 KAR 15:025, Section 5(1).

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/kar/815/015/010.htm

The regulatory board may be different for each state, but the legal intent is the same, state specials have been reviewed by the state and have found to be acceptable..

My point stated above still stands.....it gets really interesting when corporate MBAs decide that these vessels will get traded across state lines....

My opinion only

-MJC

 

[Sid7]

Thanks MJC.

Yes the kentucky disaster speak for itself. Seems like the vessel itself was a dead meat waiting for its time to be served on the platter.

Well the trade as you say may be unavoidable part of the business economics. Now the question, how the player is upto for the game?

for example if the player was a big organisation then the chances are they have procedures/infrastructure/legal teams and everything else required to do what it takes their liability be safer as per standards.

Secondly there may be small players facing the same business economic constrains and the game itself might become unsafe.

Now to say irrespective of how big the player is, the game can still be entirely safe or unsafe on various grounds. I envisage there will be n number of things from a corporate MBA making a decision like this and having that part of vessel doing the work. Even one thing can cause a problem.

To be honest I dont have MBA neither plan to, but IMHO the responsibility wont be lying on the MBA only?

Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.

 

[chicopee]

A situation similar to yours came across my desk in the 1980's. It was an unfired pressure vessel from France to be used in the States. My approach was to obtain a manufacturer's data sheet and I diligently took time to translate the information and compared it with ASME/NB manufacturer's data sheet.

 

[ndeguy]

Its over a decade now since I worked in vessel fabrication and we used to build vessels to BS 5500, AD-Merkblaetter and ASME Codes according to its intended location. I expect France, Italy, SPain had theor own Codes as well.

stanweld, the situation works both ways - many US-fabricated U-stamped vesels are imported into Britain and need remedial work before they can be put into service due to poor workmanship.

Now that the unifying European Pressure Vessel Directive is in force and considering the commercial and technical links between North America and Europe I would have thought that vessels fabricated and certified in accordance with European or American national regulations should be mutually acceptable. I am not a vessel engineer so I may well be missing something, but if its considered safe to operate in one geographical location surely its safe to operate in another. Anything else is "protectionsim".

Nigel Armstrong
Karachaganak Petroleum
Kazakhstan