Relocation/job change value

[Jabberwocky]

Hello All,

I've read through this forum with interest, but now have come to think hard about that unwieldy beast I call a career.

Two years ago I was just out of school (mechanical) and applying to every company I could think of. I got as far as a few phone interviews but it basically came down the fact that I had no experience. (If I knew then what I know now I would've blown off the dean's list for some internships)

Anyways, I got hired by your basic serendipity circumstance and have been pretty happy since. Now that I have about 1.5 years in, my phone has been ringing pretty constantly with recruiters trying to place me all over the country. These people wouldn't give me the time of day fresh out of school, but such is the market for experience I guess.

My actual question is (hopefully) simple. How much of a raise (by percentage) should I expect to receive over the next year if I stay here? How much increase is reasonable to expect from being shipped cross-country?

I realize it's all heavily dependent upon engr. specialty and big v. small companies, cost-of-living etc, but any anecdotal evidence would help me out.

 

[lostsailor]

Jabberwocky,
It's been my experience that the largest raises within a company tend to come with promotions and/or lateral moves within the company. If you stay where you are, unless you can make a case for it, I would not expect a raise greater than 4-5 percent.
The largest salary increases I obtained came as a result of switching jobs, in the range of 15-25 percent. Don't forget that vacation time is also negotiable, if you can't get the money you want, go for an extra week or two of vacation. Relocation expenses are also a must if you are looking to go long distance and you may also want to consider a prenegotiated severance agreement.
Regards,
RLS

 

[nate2003]

I took a job three months out of school with the only company that would give me an offer. Got laid off after 6 months and had two offers within a couple weeks. Took the better one for an 18% raise. Since then, I have been getting 4-5% per year. Agree with lostsailor that your best chance of large increase is to go to other company, but you would probably have added responsibility as well (a move up as opposed to lateral move). Also, there is a big difference by state as to what the salaries are. I am in Wisconsin and I would take a pay cut moving to NC or SD even if I stepped up professionally. Just some things to consider.

"I have had my results for a long time, but I do not yet know how I am to arrive at them." Karl Friedrich Gauss

 

[KENAT]

After being at the same company out of school for just slightly longer than you I got something like a 19% increase out of the blue based on how well they seemed to think I was doing. (Basically I'd been thrown in the deep end on a high profile project management job and due to the help of my colleagues more than my own talent didn't sink.) From then on I got generous raises every year.

The trade off was I gradually did more and more project management rather than the design I enjoyed. Plus in my opinion just a year or twos experience isn't enough to make a good project manager but when you're the only option.....

I remember being told that you should try and make your first job last at least 4 years or so or you'll start to look like a job hopper but I don't know if this is really true, seems a lot of people switch jobs fairly often and do OK by it.

 

[TheTick]

Don't get too blown-away by recruiter's flattery. It's a long way from there to an actual job.

Also best to stay in your job at least 3 years.

I didn't do internships due to military reserve commitments. I made up for it after graduation by doing a series of 3-6 month contracts. Every contract ended with a permanent offer. I finally accepted one the 3rd time around.

 

[kchayfie]

My first job kind of disappeared after 2 years because the office was closing and I didn't want to relocate or change speciality. I left about 4 months before I would have been pushed and landed a job at another local company with a 20% pay increase. I've been here for 4 years now and my annual cost-of-living increases have been about 2-4%. After about 2 years my job title changed from "assistant engineer" to "engineer" and that came with a 7% pay increase. My boss is now pushing his boss to promote me to "senior engineer" which (its rumoured anyway) comes with another 7% pay increase, plus company car.

I've had recruiters contact me with other job options in recent months, with either a bit more money plus car or a lot more money but no car. But no promise of the job satisfaction I know I get here so for now I'm staying put and pushing for the promotion and associated benefits.

 

[wes616]

my wife got a 35% increase in pay when we moved across country. I got a 40% jump (if you include the fact that i now get paid 1.5x for ot. and 20 mor hours a week....) hahaha

Wes C.
------------------------------
When they broke open molecules, they found they were only stuffed with atoms. But when they broke open atoms, they found them stuffed with explosions...

 

[Ashereng]

You also need to factor in cost of living, state taxes, federal taxes and what I call equivalent quality of living allowance.

If you live in a relatively nice neighbourhood, where all the kids play on the street in ideal mid-west small town USA, and are moving to Houston, to get the equivalent quality of living, you need to factor in longer commutes, gated communities, private schools, and membership at the local club (so that your kids have someplace to play).

This is a bit of an exaggeration, but the concept is good.

Note: You can substitute any major US center for Houston. I am not slamming Houston.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks all, this is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to hear about. I've heard the same kind of thing about sticking with your first job for a few years to establish yourself as stable. I've also been very careful about factoring in cost-of-living. In one of my early discussions I accidentally dropped a number for what I would expect locally without thinking that I was moving a significantly more expensive locale.

Very true also that a recruiter seems to say anything to fill the slot, so you can only really find out what's up by going to the company, right?

Related question, I would feel somewhat guilty if the company flew me cross-country and did a tour and set up the entire interview process and I just wasn't interested. Naive perhaps, and I understand it's all part of the process - should I just get over it and enjoy the ride?

 

[bvanhiel]

The cost of flying you out to the interview is small compared to what they'll pay the recruiter. Plus you're taking vacation time (I assume) to go out there, so It's not like you're not committing anything. Enjoy the trip.

-b

 

[GregLocock]

In your first job you should basically transform yourself from a fairly useless ex-student into a young engineer. In that time your value to your current employer will easily double (or more). In the three years I was at work after uni my pay went up by 70%, and I was on the top salaried grade for an engineer.

I'm still on the top salaried grade 20 years later. So much for career progression!

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[PSE]

My experiences are typical to the above posters. Finding a "good" recruiter can be challenging. For most you are a commodity that they will cycle through any position (appropriate or not) that may come up. I have received calls from them asking me if I wanted to get into finance or bank management. Background did not matter.

Regards,

 

[sms]

Just keep in mind that if you are moving from Houston to just about any other part of the country you will need at least a 20% raise to cover cost of living,taxes, and especially housing......

Just couldn't resist Ashereng (yes I live in Houston)

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[electricpete]

"Related question, I would feel somewhat guilty if the company flew me cross-country and did a tour and set up the entire interview process and I just wasn't interested."

I wouldn't worry too much about it other than the fact that if you turn them down you will probably never get another invite from this particular company.

Interviewing is good practice. You will have an oppotuntity to practice explaining your present job and all the good things you've done and demonstrating how self-aware you are etc. You will get a little practice sizing up companies (and have some basis to compare companies from a one-day snapshot). You will find out how much you are worth on the market.In each interview you will be just a little more comfortable and confident and project yourself as a better candidate. That experience might even carry over to other aspects of your work/life where you have to sell yourelf or an idea.


=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

 

[Jabberwocky]

My thoughts exactly electricpete,

At what stage during the process is it ok to say no and still maintain good graces. I may not want this particular position, but I can't say I wouldn't want to work at Company X in the future. Particularly when Company X is so large...

If you manage to pass the preliminary interview stages, wouldn't the company maintain their file on you forever? Does your decline of an offer show up as a giant black mark in perpetuity?

 

[Grouser]

Is salary the reason you are looking to leave, or is/are there other considerations? Pigeon-holed? Boring assignments? No respect? All are valid reasons.

You need to try to define what you want to do and then find a way to do it. Maybe your present position's locale is one you can't live without. Or you have nearby family you don't want to leave. These are also valid reasons. Just be aware that trade-offs may be necessary because your pool of possible employers is smaller.

Now to my point: do some research on prospective employers to find more desirable alternatives. After selection, you can contact those firms directly without using a head hunter. As stated above, most of them want to move product and are paid only for placements (100% commision).

As per electricpete, you should use each interview as practice for the next one. Critique yourself and the interviewer(afterward) with the goal of improving your presentation and information gathering. The interview is all about both-way information transfer. If you're good but don't get the job, they'll remember you for another opening. Small firms might be vindictive about refusal, I don't think large firms have time for such foolishness. There are many reasons to turn down an offer; as long as yours are valid, you won't lose respect. As lostsailor points out, there are many points of negotiation available during the offer process. You need to do your homework regarding the prospective employer and locale to be prepared to negotiate. Get future promises IN WRITING!

Big salary increases are more likely to come with a change of employer. The new management system of immediate recognition hasn't caught on yet. These are mostly bonuses rather than raises. Promotion comes from performance improvements and/or ability to handle increased responsibility. The ability to market and manage clients is desirable in all businesses.

Hope this isn't to much of a rant. Good Luck!

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks Grouser,

I'm not actually looking to leave but as it's been said each interview is good practice for the next. My particular industry is very dynamic at the moment so it seems I'm suddenly in-demand. I haven't looked to closely at my career options since I landed this job (my first). Thanks again all for giving me a good sounding board.