Remotely programming PLCs. 4

[itsmoked]

I'm facing a project where there will be 3 PLCs on a moving platform that moves about the USA. Invariably there will need to be changes to their code. I want to be able to do that remotely. I'm looking for solutions in any form. That is it could be something you buy that will mimic a local programming computer or a fully enabled PLC that has the native functionality. This is going to be a wireless situation, of course.

I'd prefer to use Automation Direct's CLICK series as they have the biggest bang for the buck and I'm very familiar with them but they provide no alternative programming methods as needed, you just plug a programming computer into them via RS232. (Except since I last used one they've added an Ethernet port that you can program thru which might make this a little easier.)

I'm open to any suggestions or brain storming, what have you got?!

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[IRstuff]

Say your train does an IPCONFIG to find its IP address. It could then email your computer with its IP address and your computer could then use it to directly communicate with the train.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //

http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

faq731-376 forum1529

 

[eeprom]

I understand your disdain of Rockwell. I feel the same, although I use them all the time. But what you are asking to do is not that difficult. I use 4G links all over the place and I can log in easily, depending on the strength of my 4G signal. Verizon will sell you 4G equipment and service. You can set up an island anywhere you can get service. Of course there is a monthly charge.

If you don't want to use Rockwell, Red Lion has some nice equipment which is far less expensive and comes with free programming software. Siemens is good also, but the software is not free.

One note about Prosoft (as was mentioned earlier)...their products are painfully expensive, but with good tech support.

 

[itsmoked]

IR; I can see that working.. sort of.


eeprom; Thanks GREATLY for the RedLion suggestion. Their R6000 series looks perfect!
[URL unfurl="true"]http://sn-6000-router-5-port[/url] Looks to be very well designed, their documentation is excellent, and I can see the price online and order directly. What a delight. Thanks.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[controlsdude]

I know i love torturing you with off the shelf solutions that actually work. I really have not had any problems with Prosoft products. I have used multiple products off that website in past projects going back over 15 years.

 

[itsmoked]

controls; I do appreciate your input!

I'm checking with the distributor now. As predicted they have to, "find out what price and availability is".

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[flexoprinting]

Hi Keith

I came across this a couple days ago, take a look and if your familiar with this brand let me know your thoughts on it.
I downloaded their education programing software and find it interesting it combines Tbasic for powerful apps.

http://shoppingcart.triplc.com/prod...d=174&osCsid=1508f260ab0ded3318b763e29ddfc448

If anyone else has used this product please comment.

Chuck

 

[FreddyNurk]

Its possible to set up OpenVPN, its also possible to not bother with any security at all, configure a 4G cellular device with an ethernet port to connect to your PLC, use something like DynDNS to locate the IP address of the modem, and just leave the connection open to anyone to log in. Obviously this isn't a good idea, nor is it a good idea to rely only on the password authentication that might be present for the modem as the security means.

A fair few of the cellular modems will support such things as OpenVPN to create a secure connection, its just a matter of getting all the configuration sorted. Red Lion (Sixnet in this case) has some decent products, so does Westermo, and Moxa. Ruggedcom might even have something, although I've never looked at their modem options. Their managed switches and serial device servers are quite good though. Make sure you disable all unsecured communication means for the relevant modem in question too (telnet, ftp etc).

 

[itsmoked]

Sierra Wireless make a cellular modem, it's marketed in the US by Prosoft, I looked into it for a similar project.

I asked the local vendor to prove it to me, I was able to make changes in a remote PLC hundreds of miles away. They even had a webcam hooked onto the local network. I could see the trees outside the window waving in the breeze.

I pointed out that it's one thing to get the local IT guy to let you hook on to his network and another to communicate through a PABX, the cell modem bypassed all that.

Unfortunately the project got cancelled before I was able to implement it, one day.

Roy I missed commenting on your contribution. The Prosoft stuff looks pretty good. I'm glad to hear you got exactly what I'm after going. That's seriously encouraging!

controlsdude; LOL just what I predicted.. "We sell that? Please give me ALL your information(dogs name etc) and I'll get back to you."
He did too. Said the Prosoft ICX35HWC (a nice 5 port cellular modem/gateway/router) is not going to be in production for at least 6 more weeks and when it is available it will be $755 which is actually about $200 less than the aforementioned Red-Lion equivalent. Not sure the $200 is worth guinea pigging for them. Possibly a more established product would be better, like the Prosoft one Roy used.



Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[itsmoked]

flexoprinting; at the risk of hijacking my own thread that product looks pretty good.

I think you should compare it against the PoKeys57CNC for what you want to do.

[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.poscope.com/pokeys-devices/PoKeys57CNC[/url]

Download the three manuals not related to MACH3 under 'Downloads' and take a read. Pretty impressive.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[itsmoked]

Red Lion (Sixnet in this case) has some decent products, so does Westermo, and Moxa. Ruggedcom might even have something

Thanks! More to look into.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[flexoprinting]

Keith, talk about a jewel in the rough. The software is free including easy block diagram interface and their I/O devices are very reasonably priced and almost shocking compared with what we pay for brand X.
Very impressive indeed Sir!

Thanks for that, Chuck

 

[flexoprinting]

Hi Keith

In my case Keith the Triangle Research product would be a better fit. I may need to replace an old Reliance AutoMate PLC soon and this product has outputs w/10A up to 250V ac. The PoLabs product outputs are only 10V probably better suited for our German die cutter w/servo drives.

Although Trilogy software is not free, it's reasonably priced especially compared to A/B,
I really like A/B products but have a hard time selling it to the bean counters with alternatives like this. I do question how durable they are and was hoping someone would chime in with hands on for these.

Chuck

 

[itsmoked]

Thanks for the info Chuck. I'm using one of the 57CNCs to run a router with Mach3 and it works great for that but you're probably correct since all the typical CNC stuff is 24V outputs unless the outputs are relays.


You did notice this page of optional hardware?

[URL unfurl="true"]http://www.poscope.com/[/url]

Specifically:
[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.poscope.com/PoExtBusRE[/url]

Which is:

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[itsmoked]

Everyone else Re: Remote PLCing

The project is in purgatory because, now days, to get a rail car "positioned" off of an Amtrak train you have to have approval from the Federal Transportation Board to alter a passenger train's normal trajectory. Getting that approval thru Amtrak is a disastrous nightmare of super massive blackhole size. It's supposed to take 7 days.... It's now been two months of #^$@(#(Q@. Cripes.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[flexoprinting]

Yes Sir!, Saw those and really like them because the board can be repaired in house and all those components appear easy to find. My Dinosaur is
switching 120V.

When you do get clearance let us know how it all works out, likes and dislikes with the project if that's ok with Thread police that is.

Thanks, Chuck

 

[bin95]

Just got a great idea for an article ... "Downtime to Death - Does your company understand what your automation control people are up to?"
Thanks for all the thread, he he

Don
BIN Industrial & PLC Training

http://bin95.com

 

[guilio2010]

We have a similar setup where we have multiple controllers in remote locations. We are always changing set points, updating logic, firmware, etc... If your controllers are part of a safety system, I would be leery of changes programming remotely and not on location. I tried this once and when I downloaded it to the controller, it didn't update and ended up somehow deleting the logic. Then again, we are remote location and using cell modems to communicate which can be slow. It may be different if it was connected to a networked system, but a good bench test could build confidence in that option.

 

[itsmoked]

Thanks guilio2010. Not really safety for these controllers and as mentioned nothing will ever be changed unless someone is physically present.


Purgatory is still stalling it all. Helluva a way to run a railroad.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[SparkRay]

We have a machine that the OEM installed an eWon module (

https://ewon.biz/product-gallery).

They have a slew of products for communicating with machines and between machines. I don't have a lot of experience with them. The one in our place needs access to the wi-fi, though. Good luck.

General Hammond: "O'Neil, what the hell are you doing?" O'Neil: "Right in the middle of my backswing?!?!"

 

[makesparks]

A couple of machines came into our plant with eWon modules. They probably work fine, but we never allowed them to be connected. Our corporate IT would take a very dim view of a product poking holes through the firewall. And they would eventually notice it -- cue heads rolling...