replacement parts, restrictions, aka you're too ignorant to work on your machine.

[krugtech]

I've been helping my customers through some unreasonable parts policies (see thread title!). The trend most manufacturers are following is to try to restrict sales of certain parts under the guise that it's way too dangerous and risky for a machine owner to do his own repair. I was told this is in the customers best interest. I as well as many laser cutting system owners do not believe this. Most of the techs the OEMs send out are not rocket scientists let alone any smarter than most of the owners I know. Are we owning our machines outright or "leasing via ownership" via an unreasonable service policies?

I worked w a machine owner today who was primarily a Bystronic house, the must have had at least 10 of them over the years. They're buying a new Trumph. One of the main reasons they went w the Trumph is they were told there would be absolutely no playing games when ANY part is needed. Also any documentation and passkeys, codes, keycards, secret handshakes..... whatever is needed to get the machine back online. When the OEM's hold back on this, the users suffer w lost production. Being told I need a tech w that part I ordered isn't so bad.... until you are told the tech will be there in a few weeks.

What I ask of everyone here is to please give examples of what machine you own and what kind of restrictions are being imposed. Is Trumph really being transparent w their service?

Chris Krug

http://krugtech.com/

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[krugtech]

I guess no one cares......

Chris Krug

http://krugtech.com/

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[HercalloY]

Bystronic here (these days). And they are a bit like this. Painful on anything to do with the service or parts. Don't really want to help that much and if they do the parts are 3 or 4x the price. And when the tech does get here to do the job they are pretty laid back yet still charge by the hour (and that's with one or two of our boys giving them a hand the whole time).

Hell i've been begging for new software (BYSOFT for Win7) for years that they claim they have been working on but i never hear a thing nor get any straight answers if i ask what's going on.. any new versions etc. It's a pitty as the machines themselves aren't to bad a bit of gear.

 

[krugtech]

I've seen Bysoft 6 running on win 7, I think you need ver 6.8.3.

Chris Krug

http://krugtech.com/

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[IRstuff]

No dog in this hunt, but I think that's simply the way it's being presented and interpreted, which may be true, or not. Lasers are a business, and at its core, how does a machine seller really make its money? One need to look no farther than the auto industry. It's well recognized that the profit margins on selling cars are razor thin, and the REAL profits for most car dealerships are in the repairs and other services they can convince you to buy. I could imagine that the laser industry is similar.

I would argue that a similar scenario is at the heart of your posting. Yes, one can posit a scenario where buyers do their own repairs for 90% of all failures and situations. But, when those last 10% of problems are encountered, the machine sellers will have had insufficient service revenue to support the cadre of the few service techs and field engineers that can solve those "tough" problems.

It's not that different than the fact that one could build fences and install locks to protect one's home, and one can argue that we ought not need to pay taxes to feed the police, but those few times when we do need them, we would lament the disappearance of those that "protect and serve" because we were shortsighted and didn't want to pay enough to for them to make a living.

Ultimately, I see this as more of a taxation situation; you pay that premium to ensure that there is someone to call when you really need to call that someone.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[krugtech]

I guess then this a hidden tax warning. The talent to fix these machines will always be there. Any parts policy that delays getting the machine back on line is counterproductive. I think of the machines as a dollar bill printer. Keep that thing running WFO at all times! The dollars roll down the hill into our pockets! No one wants to get off a phone w a hot customer waiting on an order and then call for help only to be told they MUST have a tech in a situation where an overnight shipment could have put the money printer back on line. The manufacturers like to keep rewriting the rules for service and the customer usually finds out when he's down.

Chris Krug

http://krugtech.com/

Maximum Up-time, Minimum BS

 

[IRstuff]

I understand your frustration and have often expressed it myself in similar circumstances. We used to have a factory that would cost us $500k minimum to support the techs needed to run the line, even if no product came out. If absolutely nothing came out, the techs would have gotten bored and would have left PDQ. I think a similar case can be made for your specific scenario. Many companies can't afford to keep a dedicated head just for repairs, because it's not cost effective, since the number of repairs is low, unless there are truckloads of machines that need repairing. Companies can simply designate an existing head and multiplex that head, but the lack of continuous repair work would tend to dull that person's abilities to make effective repairs. One of the downsides of more reliable machines is that there is less work for the manufacturer's repair staff, thus requiring them to come up with ways to ensure that their staff gets as much work as possible.

At some point in time, we'll get smart enough to predict when certain catastrophic failures will occur and replace the imminent part failures before they occur, which will further aggravate your situation, since only some companies will be willing to do that, and there will still be a demand for actual repair services.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[krugtech]

I like to keep it simple. This really is kind of BS. It's like when you buy a machine you're forced into a hidden partnership w the manufacturer to keep their techs entertained? It's nice how so many just lets the manufacturer dictate one sided business rules. There are customers who can take care of their own machine repairs, let them have the parts to do it. There are customers w no maintenance dept who just love service contracts and fixed machine repair costs, let the manufacturers have a great time on that cash cow. Then everyone is happy. When you contact your service professional, what does he put first, getting your machine up or getting some revenue on parts/service? Not focusing on getting the machine running is pretty much crapping where you eat.

Chris Krug

http://krugtech.com/

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[HercalloY]

I agree. not to mention the car manufacturers analogy. I dont' know which world he's living in but the one i live in doesn't seem to indicate to me that car's are sold with thin margins. And no service departments are raking it in by doing said services aside from the usual mechanic's that get away with charging copious amounts to dumb females that don't have much choice (or simply don't care to) as i do all my vehicle maintenance and get the parts a lot cheaper by shopping around. So that analogy doesn't fit at all.

 

[lasergeek]

Trumpf does not have any restrictions on parts they will sell customers.Trumpf didnt become number one in the industry by screwing over customers.As a owner i would be very pissed if they told me they have to send a engineer to install a part that i could do myself and have to wait two weeks---thats just wrong and they wont do that.

 

[krugtech]

I have Bystronic houses going to Trumph for this one single reason. getting the machines back in production is rule number 1 in the service industry. Service policies that cause delays and lost production may guarantee some short term work for a manufacturer but in the end they'll suffer along w the customers.

Chris Krug

http://krugtech.com/

Maximum Up-time, Minimum BS