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Report a Client for Fraud? 23

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casseopeia

casseopeia

Structural
Jan 4, 2005
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I have a Client (Developer) who used whiteout and pencil to significantly alter a printout of a detail design that I had issued. It was then scanned and issued to the Contractor in electronic format with my firm's letterhead and my initials still intact, as if it had come from us. I was not notified of the change until I happened to stop by the project site to get some unrelated information and saw what they were constructing. I asked the Superintendent why he was not following what I drew and he said it was what I issued. That's how I discovered the change. The Superintendent was disturbed by the unauthorized revisions and said that he had a similar experience with the HVAC consultant just the day before. The Client had taken whole sections of the mechanical specifications, changed the equipment, typed up the changes, and literally cut and pasted the paper right into the Project Manual without the knowledge of the Designer.

I find this behavior shocking. The Client is certainly free to ignore his Consultant's recommendations, but to change the Consultant's work product and issue under the stamp of another licensed professional seems like it would rise to the level of fraud, punishable by the loss of a business license. If this were my own company, I would have dumped this Client a long time ago when he started in making sweeping changes in my investigation report, but my boss decided to continue the work. Just looking for opinions.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump
 
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At this point I honestly have no idea where everything ended up, except that the sale apparently went through. I was enough of a trouble maker to be shut out of the meetings between our Client and the purchaser of the property, I'm sure at the request of the Client. He even stopped calling to try to convince me that what he was doing was't wrong. And the firm I work for has not been paid any invoice submitted in the last 4 months.

But the sale would not have happened without the acquiescence of the purchaser. There was plenty of evidence of the remaining leak issues. These people are not naive. They are a MAJOR institutional buyer and manager of rental apartment property and have their own construction wing. It would not surprise me if they deliberately encouraged non-disclosure of known leaks, so that they could turn around and sue the seller for not disclosing the known leaks.

I would be interested in what the state of Colorado has to say about a licensed employer who issues thinly veiled threats of termination if a licensed employee is deemed 'uncooperative' with Client demands because she disagrees with report changes made by the Client. Personally I think it qualifies as undue influence. I also see a conflict between 12-25-108, failure to report... with Rule of Conduct 3.4.1, which states that licensees shall not, "engage in any conduct that discredits or tends to discredit another architect, engineer or land surveyor and/or the profession of architecture, engineering or land surveying." How do you report a licensed employer without discrediting him?


"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump
 
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So your boss caved in to a crook, knowing he was a crook in the hope of getting paid for his dishonesty.

One very basic rule I always followed was that if someone asks you to help them cheat someone else don't deal with them ad they will very likely also cheat you at their first opportunity. A crook is a crook is a crook.

Regards
Pat
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casseopeia said:
I also see a conflict between 12-25-108, failure to report... with Rule of Conduct 3.4.1, which states that licensees shall not, "engage in any conduct that discredits or tends to discredit another architect, engineer or land surveyor and/or the profession of architecture, engineering or land surveying." How do you report a licensed employer without discrediting him?
Click to expand...
I don't see the conflict. The understanding would be "outside of legal implications", or in other words, you can't slander, etc., but if you have legal proof they are sweeping things under the rug, that is not covered by the rule.

Dan - Owner
Footwell%20Animation%20Tiny.gif
 
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Yes, as Pat says, never trust a crook.
And it is especially surprising that one crook would trust another. In this case your boss has been playing along without having been paid and they are unlikely to get paid. If your company pursues payment aggressively then the client has plenty of damaging information to hold over them.

The fact that you now surmise the purchaser is complicit or at the very least has turned a blind eye to the problem doesn't make it any better.
Worse, if anything.
It suggests the purchaser and the client have worked together for a some time and that this is their SOP.

I assume that your company does not have a great deal of business with either before now and has been seduced into this by the prospect of lots of repeat business. Whether they knew this would be the way things were or not, it is how it will be in the future and that means they will want some one far more compliant than you in the team.

It would be interesting to find out who previously did this work for the purchaser and client and why they don't any more.
If this is a standard business pattern for them then one can only conclude that no previous company has been brave enough to speak out and probably because they all wanted to get paid some time.

It sounds like the facility with which the client changes drawings and coerces "modified" reports indicates long practise and that sense of invulnerability that comes from getting away with it for so long. Sooner or later they will cut one corner too many and a disaster awaits.

At least, that is how I read it.
If so then sooner or later its going to hit the fan big time because it won't be an isolated instance but something big enough to keep the lawyers billing years at a time and may even become something of a media sensation if it also involves officials.

Does it involve officials, Building Inspectors?
Maybe it does.
When there is widespread bad practise and even fraud, it can be the only thing that has kept it from being an issue before now.
It now depends on how this breaks and who will be caught up in it.

I hope you have a new job lined up to go with a new home.
You obviously hate what is happening and you hate how they have been trying to manipulate you.
I hope you have a plan.
I hope you can tell us you have had some legal/professional advice.




JMW
 
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"At this point I honestly have no idea where everything ended up", ignorance is sometimes blissful...

"...And the firm I work for has not been paid any invoice submitted in the last 4 months.", should have provided his report in trust through a legal firm, to be forwarded on complete payment... He should have known better!

I hope things work out and the market improves to the point where people don't have to take on this type of work...

Dik
 
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jmw... missed a big one... it brings the profession down a tad... This same type of action is then expected from other professionals.

Dik
 
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Wow - haven't visited the boards in a while and stumbled across this one. Read it from beginning to end.... Don't envy you Cass...not one bit. A slippery slope you have slid on.

From what I have garnered this is a condominium project some where in Cali. One that was started by one developer and then sold to a large realtor "flipper". That only muddles the waters when the law suites arrive.......and they will.

The firm I am employed by was heavy in the condo market MEP design that occurred in the panhandle of FLA in the late 90's early 2000's - before (and some during) the housing crash. We did tons of'em. There are "ambulance chaser" lawyers working now as we speak in the panhandle approaching HOA's with a simple question - "We believe there were short cuts taken in the designing and construction of your property. And if proven true in a court of law, we will divide the settlement with the HOA 60/40 with no cost to the HOA. So are you in"? Off course they are - free money. Then they send their team of suspect engineers and architects in to perform a due diligence on the property. Interview every homeowner and with each little complaint mark it down as a deficiency. Next thing you know is all your files and emails are subpenaed for potential evidence. Now the entire design team is on defensive. 100's of hours wasted... not to mention legal cost. Non-billable hours.

Been thru a half dozen of these at least on project I was directly associated with. I know of another half dozen that with this route that I wasn't. On a few we cut and run with a high 5 figure settlement not admitting guilt because to defend would have moved our cost into the 6 figure range. Tough to swallow when you know you have no culpability.....

Hope your firm has some deep pockets Cass.

Andy W.

ps - I would have nailed them to the wall.....
 
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Wareagl487, good going.
There's an angle I hadn't thought about....
I've been envisaging some one squealing, perhaps because they couldn't accept this happening or perhaps because their cut wasn't big enough, and I forgot all about the ambulance chasers.

These guys will pick a tree and give it shake to see what drops. They don't need a starting point, they don't need smoke to lead them to the fire. They just shake trees till something falls out of one.
They shake Cass's company's tree.......

Much of the success these guys enjoy is not about right or wrong but about which is cheapest: settle out of court and make the lawyers rich or go to court and make them richer.
They don't even need a legitimate case, all they need is a button and they can find a vest to sew on it.

So as you say, it isn't a case of "if" but "when".


JMW
 
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Maybe Wareagl487 has a point, but construction law firms are necessary. I have been involved on both side of construction lawsuits, and they don't start for frivolous reasons.
 
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I wonder.

The developer obtains falsified documents about building re compliance to codes.

The real estate agent knows this so there is no fraud at that point.

The agent then sells to individuals and can claim he has documentation that the building complies.

When he gets complaints he claims he had documents from experts so it's not his fault. The developer can't be sued for fraud because there was no deceit on his part. There is however still a conspiracy, but conspiracy is very hard to prove.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
for site rules
 
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My experience reflects Hokie's.

How could you do anything so vicious? It was easy my dear, don't forget I spent two years as a building contractor. - Priscilla Presley & Ricardo Montalban
 
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Jobs are hard to come by in this market, I don't think anyone would be considering quitting if they didn't have an ace in the back pocket.

How could you do anything so vicious? It was easy my dear, don't forget I spent two years as a building contractor. - Priscilla Presley & Ricardo Montalban
 
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Today our staff meeting was about completeness and truth in Reports. So I asked "what is the recommended protocol when .a Client demands that information be removed that he finds embarrassing or incriminating" from a report and was told that "this company does not cave to demands such as that from our Clients."

My response, "Oh yes you do. Would you like the dates, job numbers, project titles and copies of the my original report. How about the video of failures during water tests that were removed and reported as 'nothing found'?"

I have had it with the ridiculous masquarading around as some pillar of integrity by some of my supervisors, then being asked to remove information from my investigation reports so that "we can get paid." My guess is soon I will be collecting an unemployment check.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump
 
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You have already separated from the company emotionally, as in "Oh, yes _you_ do.", not "Oh, yes _we_ do.".
The rest is just paperwork.

I'm proud of you.

You don't truly own a principle until it's cost you money.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
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Cass,
congratulations on having entered The Twilight Zone!

In all my years I have never ever attended any meetings nor been sent away on courses where "Completeness and Truth in Reports" has arisen in discussion let alone appeared on an agenda. So it is staggering to find your company has scheduled a meeting exclusively devoted to it.

I find this especially surreal, ironic maybe, considering the reality of your experience.
OK, so they could hardly convene a meeting endorsing all that has happened but..... well, what's going through their brains when they stand up and say "We are an ethical company. These are the standards we rigorously enforce. By the way, what nice green sky this fine May morning."

And you stand up and say "Your company has the ethics of a Columbian Drug Cartel. I've got it all documented and on video. If anything happens to me copies will be sent to CNN, the CIA, the NSA and Sesame Street. By the way, the grass is green the sky is blue..... and it's October."

So, they didn't immediately waterboard you to find out how many copies you've made and where they all are, they didn't escort you to the door? Send for people in white coats to take you away? Throw you out of the meeting?
Did they look at all embarrassed? disconcerted?
Did they admit it all or deny it all?
Are you imagining it all?

Don't tell, me this was (a) a fraud by other managers than they (b) all done by the loony manager (is he still there? is he involved? are you still supposed to be looking after him?) and no one actually knows anything about it?

Come on Cass, you have to tell us how they responded.

But as Mike says, congratulations on reaching a fully matured I and Them position.

JMW
 
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