Reputable Injection Molder in China?

[CBecks]

Hello fellow product design engineers,

I'm designing a simple injection molded part.
Open-shut tool, part about 3.85" x3.25" x 1.5"[98mm x 83mm x 37mm]

Other companies I've worked for had Chinese suppliers already for their industry. Now I'm doing work for a new company with no leads, and looking to get one part injection molded in China.

Can anyone recommend reputable injection molders in China?
Would like companies who are a one stop shop - who will quote tooling cost and part cost.

Thanks for your advice.
I know there are some extremely knowledgeable people here.

 

[EdStainless]

How m any trips do you have in your budget?
If the answer is none then I hope that I never need one of your tools.
The last time that we did this (not plastic IM, but similar) it took visits to 10 different sites to qualify one supplier.

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P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube

 

[Artisi]

How many million parts do you intend making, if not millions - do it local and save your sanity....

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

 

[CBecks]

I don't plan any trips for this part.
We plan to make 30,000 pieces per year.
It's a throw-away part, part of the packaging, no real aesthetic requirements, dead simple design. So thought it's a good candidate to make in China.

Also thought maybe there would be some companies with a Western face that we could interact with, who already have good, reputable suppliers for tooling and molding over there.

 

[bdeuell]

I am currently dealing with the ramifications of choosing an unreliable mold supplier in China ... so i would not recommend my current supplier.

I would check out Standard Tool and Mold. They were very helpful when looking for ways to resolve the issues with our current supplier but at the end of the day we were already stuck with our current supplier. They are actually headquartered out of Canada and i believe have some staff in the US (not sure where you are located) which i think offers a huge advantage. They seemed to have a very good understanding of what process controls are necessary to ensure a reliable supply chain, but again I have not actually used them as a supplier.

 

[MikeHalloran]

My friend Bill J. says he had some multicavity molds made in China, and parts supplied, by an outfit he calls Ace. No contact info is available; that was five years ago, and he was laid off recently. I remember how amazed he was that their mold price was half that of a domestic producer, who wanted five dollars each for a couple hundred examples. The Chinese outfit included 500 parts with the mold for free, and the first article inspection said every one was within specs in every respect.

For smaller quantities and single cavities, Bill spoke highly of:
Marathon Mold
1615 Elizabeth Avenue
West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Main: 561-655-0981
Fax: 561-655-0374
Tim@MarathonMold.com

I have no personal experience with Chinese molders, but one buyer related a story about his misadventure, where the parts were all bad, the molder said it was because he couldn't get good die steel, the buyer shipped him $2000 worth of Finkl steel (when that was a lot of money), and the next order of parts was just as bad as the first, the second mold was found to be junk, and nobody could find the Finkl steel.

Bill's experience may be an anomaly. My suggestion is that you must be prepared to go to China and live there for the duration of manufacturing if you wish to assure product quality.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[drawoh]

CBecks,

Read Poorly Made in China by Paul Midler. Midler provides an insider's view on how stuff is procured in China. He describes a lot about the Chinese, as well as the Americans who send stuff out to them.

There was an interesting anecdote about one of Midler's customers. He had started in business selling watches. You ordered the watch and sent in your first payment. When you got the watch, you sent in two more payments. Midler's customer understood that most people were not going to bother sending the extra payments, but that was okay. The watches were cheap enough that he made money on the first payment.

--
JHG

 

[ornerynorsk]

You might want to check out some of the B2B sites, such as Global Sources or Alibaba. There is a lot of fluff and filler, but I've had reasonable success finding companies for new components and processes from time-to-time. Once you have found a potential supplier, Google the exact name and see what comes up. Ask them for samples, or at least photos of current parts. My first foray into Asia was well before internet, but nowadays it's ridiculously easy. Most molders there will prefer to supply both the tool and the molded parts, and quantity/volume is not the issue it once was, as Chinese companies grow accustomed to doing business with the west. We routinely have specialty parts tooled and shot in as low as 500 to 1000 pcs. So you pay a few pennies more than if you buy a million. Make sure the potential supplier understands your estimated annual volume on the front end, and there's no problem. Some will invariably no-quote, but few mid-sized shops will turn away work.

My experience has been that a US company, offering the western face with Chinese tooling, as you put it, will run about 50% of the cost of domestic tooling. Sourcing direct from the molder in China, it is not unusual to see that figure drop to 10-15%. Just understand going into the deal that unless it is expressly agreed upon and in writing before money changes hands, it is understood that the tool will never be pulled or shipped to you. It's "your" tool in the sense that they will not run parts for other companies, but "your" tool may not run in another press without extensive modification. Ask them what the guaranteed tool life is, that is, the point before which there is no repair and maintenance charges.

For simple and utility parts, it's almost a no-brainer. High criticality parts require more homework and due diligence. I currently source about 100 components from 14 factories and trading companies for my current employer. I've had one single instance in the last 13 years where we had to change vendor due to unresolvable quality issues, resulting in a write-off of some parts and about $2500 in tooling, and have never made a single trip to any of the facilities out of necessity. It's no different than dealing with a local supplier, you find out whose word is good, and who is simply adept at making hollow promises to get the work. Many shops are adapting ISO methods, even if not yet certified, and they will be happy to tell you of their quality system and facilities.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[CBecks]

I thought there would be more success stories than that. Maybe successful projects stand out less. Or people don't want to share their secrets, if they worked long and hard to find a good supplier. Fair enough, I guess.

In the end I quoted with one Chinese supplier with Western representatives. Surprisingly they were more expensive than local suppliers, for both tooling and part cost.
Factoring in also the added complexity of doing business in China, longer lead times, and extra shipping costs makes it an easy choice to stay local, in this case.

Thanks everybody for your time. I've taken it all on board.

 

[kjoiner]

We use a molder that is local to our area (in Georgia) for our parts. They make most of the molds in house and do good work. Several years ago, we redesigned a part to replace an aluminum extrusion. This part is about 2.75" wide and 32.5" long with side actions etc. It is a big tool - weighs around 3,000 lbs. This tool is bigger than what they can make in house so they worked with a molder in China to make the tool and handled the interface with them. Once the trials were complete, they shipped mold back to the our molder for production. The reason I mention the backstory is because when the tool arrived, it was locked together and would not come apart. They had to pull the mold apart with a forklift. It turns out, the mold was warped and the Chinese shop had been "making it work" for the trials and then proceeded to ship it out. Fortunately, our local shop made them build a new tool and it's been in use for over 5 years now. Going through this process made me realize how important it is to work through an intermediate who has experience dealing with the issues and can ensure we get what we need.

Kyle

 

[CBecks]

Kyle,
That is apparently not an uncommon outcome.
I've heard more than one story of companies sourcing tooling from China because it's "inexpensive", only to have to create all new tooling locally because the Chinese tool was not usable. Now you've made two tools, and wasted weeks or months worth of time. Not very "inexpensive" at that point.

Like they say "The cheapest option usually costs the most."

drawoh, I've added that book to my reading list.

 

[ctopher]

I have designed molds that were used in China. Been there.
If you want them made right, make a trip there and work with them.

Chris, CSWP
SolidWorks '16
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[kjoiner]

CBecks,

I'm very glad we worked through our local molder on this tool. They have the expertise to communicate with the Chinese tool maker and provided a layer of insulation between us and the tool maker. I would be very hesitant to work directly with them.

Kyle

 

[TheTick]

Kentucky is the new China. Look in the London/Annville area.

 

[Paulkuklych]

The difficult part is finding a reliable supplier...best of luck

Paul Kuklych

http://www.improve-your-injection-molding.com