Requesting some much needed input and guidance 1

[IJustLikeScience]

Hello,

The basic gist of my issue is that I am not in the engineering field I want to be in, and I'm not sure how to get there (because apparently applying to the jobs I want isn't the way).

My background: graduated in '11 with BSME (with average grades from an average school). Started working on my private pilot's license my senior year. Then, I enlisted in the Navy as a reactor operator (the short version of my reason for enlisting is that it wasn't for career reasons, just wanted to serve. Well intentioned, but very misguided, and now I am where I am). While in the Navy I started going to grad school for a M.Eng. in Aerospace Engineering (super love it). When I was getting out of the Navy, I applied to every aerospace/aircraft/airline company I could find (seriously, probably 50, maybe more). I got rejection letters from maybe 3, never heard from the rest. Ended up getting a pretty solid position doing R&D at medical device company. I like the company and the people, and the work is alright, but not the industry I want to end up in at all. I am currently still chipping away at grad school.

Now I definitely don't think I am a genius engineer that's not getting his due; my grades say "average" (doing extremely well in grad school, but even in the interview for my current company, they only focused on my completed education). However, I am confused as to why I didn't even get to the interview phase with an entire industry, so if anyone can shed some light on that it would be greatly appreciated. My first thought is that my resume is the culprit, but I've run it by a lot of people and they give me positive feedback about it (I can post it here if someone thinks that'll help). My next thought was that I lacked experience, which makes sense. So I had expanded the positions I applied to to include entry level engineering positions, and still not even a phone call.

The other issue I'm having that I would genuinely appreciate some input on is what steps do I take to get into the aerospace industry and when? I'm already working on a relevant master's, but is there anything not obvious that would help me get a foot in the door somewhere? Also, I ask when I should do this, because I started at this medical device company last October, and while its out of industry, it is R&D and I've got a somewhat senior position, so I wonder if its worth it to stay here to gain experience and knowledge about R&D, or if its too unrelated and I should just start applying to aerospace jobs now.

Thank you so much if you're still reading this far, and thank you very much for any input. Everything is appreciated.

Cheers!

EDIT:
Some notes I think I should add:
•my dream job is something like a flight test engineer for Lockheed or Northrop Grumman
•due to my military background, I get inundated with calls from post-military placement recruiters that don't actually read my resume, and try to get me into positions like assembly line worker or law enforcement (both good jobs, but not where I want to go), and I'm worried that my education (which is what I do want to do) is getting overshadowed. so should I take my military service off my resume (or limit it to just 1-2 lines)?

 

[MintJulep]

My general experience is that the Navy doesn't tolerate average with nuclear operators.

You need to steer discussions about grades. "Yeah, my undergrad grades weren't great. Then I joined the Navy and grew up, learned discipline and responsibility that has paid off with my graduate studies because my grades now are great."

Use Navy contacts. There are Navy vets in every company that you want to work for. You need to find them.

 

[IJustLikeScience]

MintJulep -
Thanks for the quick post! The problem is I don't even get far enough to have a discussion. I apply and send an email with resume and cover letter, try to follow up with an email or phone call after a week or so and I never hear back. The furthest I ever got was talking to reception. How do I get further than that?

As far as Navy contacts, about 95% of the people I worked with that got out went to work at a civilian power plant as a technician or floor supervisor, so I'm not sure they'd have an "in" with the companies I'm looking at.

 

[HamburgerHelper]

A lot of nuclear jobs mentioned that they have strong preference toward navy nukes. I though about going into the navy for a little while just to get into the navy nuke program. Maybe, I am remembering it wrong but I thought the navy nuke program was pretty hard and carried a lot of prestige. That sounds like not where you want to go but if you can handle that program, someone should give you a shot.

 

[MikeHalloran]

One problem with Aerospace is that it's politically cyclical.
The money comes from the Guvvamint, and the political will to do Aerospace stuff waxes and wanes.

Another problem with Aerospace is there are, on average, twice as many Aerospace engineers as there are jobs for them. So you are competing with guys with direct applicable experience, who can be up to speed immediately. The big aerospace contractors compete with each other only on the ways they can hire from that big pool at minimum cost, and as soon as the current contract is complete, pretty much everybody gets tossed back into the pool, through no fault of their own.

The medical device business is, for now at least, not quite so dependent on Guvvamint money, though there is a substantial amount of oversight.

I agree about networking with your Navy buddies; you will never get in the front door.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Cowtree]

Another place you might look, besides commercial aerospace companies, is employment as a DOD civilian with one of the military commands that deals with aerospace, NAVAIR and whatever the Air Force's version of that is, there's probably even something with the Army if you like missiles or helicopters. There is a strong preference in the government to hire veterans, and for an engineering command a vet with an engineering degree should go to the top of the HR resume stack. Fair warning with that though, my experience at one of those Navy commands is that they tend to want to push their engineers into more of an acquisition kind of position, where you are more focused or writing specifications or helping manage a project or fighting red tape than you are with detailed design. They are large places though and I'm sure not everything is acquisition, so you might be able to find yourself into a group that does their own work. If not, at the very least it will get you working with those aerospace defense contractors which could be a way in, eventually.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Since you have prior military service (does not matter that it was Navy), look into obtaining a commission in the Air Force Reserve as a Developmental Engineer, Air Force Specialty Code (AFSC) 62EX.

Since your own efforts are not succeeding and Navy contacts are in the wrong field, this is likely your best chance. Take heed of Cowtree's advice, but what you want can be done.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

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[SandCounter]

Don't put your grades on your resume. You are 6 years out of school, you have a degree and experience, not to mention your current studies. Anyone hung up on undergraduate grades from up to a decade ago in a field that constantly reinvents itself has no business hiring engineers.

I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.

 

[IRstuff]

Some other thread alluded to an issue with robots reading your resume, so there may be things that are causing your resume to be rejected. Note that a generic resume will likely get kicked out by such robots.

You may need to start REALLY small; looking for micro-UAV developers, and possibly volunteering with student UAV developments, etc.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[canwesteng]

I'd think you'd need to finish your masters first before. As others have noted the competition is tight in aerospace, and HR people are looking for a reason to discard resumes to thin the pile they have to read. I'd also re assess where you'er at now; it seems like it's a better place to have a career to be honest. I don't get to design skyscrapers like I dreamed of at my job, but the work is still interesting and very few people get into doing the exciting and flashy engineering. You'll hear lots of automotive guys complain about how they thought they'd design cars but end up doing hydraulics for braking systems, I'd think aerospace is similar.

 

[KENAT]

Are you willing to re-locate? Seem to be a lot of job openings in Antelope Valley CA and even at China Lake north of there that you might want to look at. Take a look at second tear contractors and civilian Dod/Navy/AF/Army... job. Assume you've checked out USA Jobs website - for a vet it's a good way to take advantage of your vet preference.

I spent an hour or so with an ex navy HR person, who now works at the local EDD office, learning how to apply for govt jobs on USA Jobs website. She gave me a bunch of tips for getting through/around the various filters. As much as I hate to say it, from what she said to some extent it can come down to literally just cutting and pasting the job add into your 'resume' and doing minimal tweaking to customize it to match your actual experience. If you hit enough of the keywords your application will at least get looked at by a human. She also recommended doing whatever you can to find contact details for managers etc. and sending your resume direct etc.

If you still have a clearance there are some jobs where allegedly any warm body meeting minimal requirements with an existing (or recent) clearance is far more likely to get the job than a far more qualified person without said clearance.

However, good luck 'cause since I've moved to the states I haven't had much success getting into the field despite working in it in the UK.

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[CWB1]

Reading through your post I believe the issue is likely your resume and/or the way you present yourself. Aside from non-applicable military experience it appears you have maybe 2-3 years engineering experience yet mention having to "expand" your search to include entry-level positions and being in a "senior R&D" position, both rather extremely contradictory to your actual experience. Not to burst any bubbles but realistically you are still an entry-level engineer with very little applicable experience to other positions in any industry including medical products, even if your resume made it past the ATS I suspect the recruiters very quickly binned it if similar to the posts above. Regardless, given that your only feedback was a few rejection letters there is no doubt your resume never made it past the recruiters' desks so I would suggest having a recruiter or three review it and provide feedback. Navigating ATS can be rather tricky at times but so can the psychology of resumes and interviewing, too much unnecessary fluff like grades or non-engineering experience may be giving others the wrong impression.

I would prefer to spend the rest of my career in the automotive realm but have worked in aerospace (both aircraft and armament) and havent found it overly difficult to land a job in so dont lose hope, its actually been my backup on several occasions when automotive work slows. Most aerospace companies are rather bloated with personnel and hire tons of temp/contract personnel on top of those, plenty of opportunity if youre willing to settle for a spec, safety, project, or other non-design role but the bureaucracy is ridiculous. If the big boys turn you down I would inquire with the temp/contract agencies.