Requesting test advice from licensed SEs

[AllStructural]

For all the licensed SEs out there,
1. What advice can you give regarding taking the SE1 and SE2 back to back(same weekend)as opposed to splitting the tests into two test sittings? I have heard this is a tough exam and would like to know if anyone found it beneficial to break the exam into two separate test periods.

2. If you took both exams at once, how long did you prepare for the exam?

I'm already a licensed PE and have a good grasp on how to prepare for an exam of this nature. While I'm eager to complete the exam in one shot, I also have the flexibility to take each portion separate if I want.

Any advice on the matter would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

It's now the 16-hour SE exam. SE1 and SE2 were retired. You have to pass both day 1 (vertical) and day 2 (lateral) to pass the exam.

1. The predominant advice is to take them separately. While this means you're going to spend 1-2 years taking this exam it's probably the easier way to go about it and gives you the best chance of passing each section as you come to it. This is how I did it. However, it does mean a larger time commitment and there's definitely a lot of merit to trying both exams first and then trying one or both separately (depending on which, if any, you pass). One thing to note is I highly suspect we're coming up on a code change in the NCEES exam specifications soon and this could make it easier to try to get it done in the shortest amount of time to avoid getting caught having to study new codes partway through.

2. I took both back to back but I recommend a bare minimum of 150 study hours per exam day. Realistically you'll most likely need about 200 hours per exam day. For both days some of the study hours will carry over so lets say 350 hours if you're taking both sections. Review courses can help with this as they will provide more focus to get things ordered and scheduled so you can manage your time the most effectively.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[DaveAtkins]

I took the 16 hour SE exam in 1992. I studied an hour or two every day for about 6 months in preparation.

DaveAtkins

 

[mike20793]

TME,

They last switched the codes in April 2015, right? What makes you think they will be switching them again? Any insider information? I pity the person that has to take it with the 2015 IBC and subsequent references.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Mike, just a conservative prediction. They did a partial code change in April 2014 (if I remember correctly) with the bridge code being updated and I believe one or two of the building related specifications. They did a full building code change in April 2015. I'm thinking maybe April 2017 we might see a partial code change which may effect some codes (probably updating the bridge code). Then I think October 2017 or April 2018 we might see the 2015 IBC and associated specifications.

My one piece of evidence is NCEES emailed me a few months ago asking me to fill out a survey on SE exam material (it appears this goes out to all recent SE exam passers). I imagine this signals that they are beginning the process to revise the exam and I suspect a code change goes with it.

If the OP sits for the April 2017 vertical exam, takes 2 tries to pass, and takes 2 tries to pass lateral; then they have a good chance to be forced to switch to IBC 2015 for their second attempt on lateral. If they take both sections at the same time, and then one additional try for each section then they may finish 1/2 year sooner and should be a little safer from a code change during exam attempts.

Obviously passing one section on the first try will most likely ensure no code changes happen during studying. This is statistically difficult but we managed to break 50% passing on both first time vertical and lateral in April so perhaps passing on the first try is becoming something more reliable.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[NOLAENG]

I don't mean to hijack the thread but I'm in a similar position as OP. I have a question that I haven't seen with a clear answer. If you decide to take the exam 1 test at a time, do you still have to pay for both? I plan on taking the vertical first but if I have to pay for both I might as well show up to see the lateral portion.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

NOLAENG: you can pay for one section at a time. However, the cost for the single part of the exam will be slightly higher than 50% of the full cost of both parts. The difference is small enough that I wouldn't consider it much when making a decision.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[NOLAENG]

TehMightyEngineer: Thanks for the answer and info. Mrs. NOLAGENG will be happy to hear that .

 

[msquared48]

I took the 16 hour in 1980 and it was a bear...Fri and Sat. Many beers afterword... Saturday night mind you now.

I prepared with both the work I did in the office, and took the 10 week refresher course. Helped immensely as it gave me an outline to build on for the exam.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[MillR]

I took it in CA before you could split it. It was, hands down, the most difficult thing I've done (okay, lie, aside from childbirth). 34 people (12%) passed. But we did it back to back, and honestly, I'd rather just get it done, pass or fail, than have to break it into multiple pieces. Be organized, the test is all about use of time, and go for it.

 

[AllStructural]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm torn 50/50 between taking my time with it and doing it in one 16-Hour Friday/Saturday sitting. There are several courses available for review. One is with ppi2pass that guarantees a "pass" for the 16-Hour exam. The course runs for (4) months before the exam and requires that you cover both vertical and lateral in the time frame. I'm definitely considering a course to help prepare since I'm on the east coast and not exposed to very much seismic design at all.

Any other course recommendations?

Thanks everyone

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

I'm biased as I'm one of the lecturers for the PPI course. This is only our second year since PPI started the course and I would say it's a fairly good course and certainly not a waste of money or time. There are still are few areas I know need to be tweaked but we have made a lot of improvements this year based on the feedback of the past year of doing it. Alternatively, I have heard good things about Kaplan and NCSEA's SE review courses. It's hard to find good, objective info since most engineers take only one course and no others, and thus they don't have any info to compare different courses.

The biggest thing about review courses for the SE exam is that it is a huge compromise when they're developed. Bridge engineers get screwed because they're a minority. People who want a lot of the course to be going through problems get screwed as most courses focus on the knowledge base and not working through problems. Alternatively, any courses that focus on going through a lot of problems wont cover as much of the basic knowledge base and help you get familiar with topics you're not dealing with day to day. And, of course, there is simply too much information to cover absolutely everything that can appear on the exam. So, keep in mind that no review course will be perfect and a lot of self-study outside the course will be required. I'd try to find a course that fits best with how you want to learn rather than going entirely off of what other people thought of the course.

PPI's course is setup best for the following person:

-Someone who can work through a lot of problems on their own time.
-Is familiar with a majority of the SE exam topics and needs a course to review the key points on topics they're familiar with.
-Wants a crash course of the basic points of topics they are not familiar with and guidance on how to find further information if they need it.
-Is taking buildings on the SE exam, bridge engineers will get a lot of good info for their morning session but there's not as much focus on bridge afternoon problems as they're in an extreme minority of the review course takers.
-Wants a rigid schedule to ensure they don't focus too much on one topic.
-Wants a good price for the PPI textbooks as they're included with the course.
-Wants to interact with other course takers and read and write questions on the course forums (similar to those who hang out on eng-tips).
-Is understanding that us "instructors" have all of a day between some lectures to prepare and will not be perfect. (It is so much fun to have to switch gears from one review course topic to another, answer emails, forum questions, grade homework, AND review the entirety of an SE exam topic in the time after my day job...)

As far as the "passing guarantee" a few courses offer that these days. I'd say it's worth considering it when you decide on a course but don't make it too much of your focus. Though I will say that many of the people who go through the homework requirements to get the passing guarantee haven't reapplied to the course. Either we're a very crappy review course or a really good one.

If you have any specific questions about the course let me know.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

It's also worth mentioning that I don't get anything out of "advertising" the PPI course. I try to be as unbiased as I can and I get paid the same amount whether there are 10 people or 100 in the course (hang on a minute.... ). I don't entirely help PPI with the course for money but rather because I want and enjoy helping other people pass the SE exam.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[Guastavino]

I took the 16-hour a few years ago. I passed vertical on first try and didn't pass lateral on try #1. I took them both back to back days.

Then, in the spring, I took the PE on Friday and then the SE on Saturday. So I had two back to back weekends, one was SE and SE, and one was PE and SE. I'd recommend it. Get's it all knocked out.

As for studying. I didn't quantify it, but I studied when I could and a good amount, but within reason. I took the practice tests and learned that they like to test on the exceptions in the notes. If you do broad scale structural engineering, there is NO reason, why you shouldn't be able to pass the SE after a couple tries (they try to trick you sometimes, which can get people on try #1 too). The reason that I didn't pass the SE lateral on round #1 was because the firm I was working at did not employ many aspects of the code, and I was ignorant of what I didn't know. I learned through studying for the SE that there was a lot more to the code than what appeared to be common design practice at the firm I was at.

Taking the SE was the single best career move I have made to date. It forces one to dig into the codes and really understand what is going on. I appreciate states that require SE licensure. I believe it is a necessary exam. Perspective is critical, and if you keep in mind that the SE exam will make you a better engineer, it will make the studying easier.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Couldn't have said it better njlutzwe; exactly how I feel.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[AllStructural]

TehMightyEngineer,
1. Is there a way to participate in this course and only pay for the vertical portion first if I intended to take each exam separately?

From what I'm gathering, taking this exam was a game changer for a lot of you. It makes me consider the fact that taking the time to explore the vertical and lateral sections independently might not be a bad thing. However, it would be unfortunate to run into a code change in the middle of the exams.

2. Do you know if NCEES might shed some light on when that code change might occur?
3. Does the course give the user the ability to ask questions and really "get into" the topic at hand? I've heard some courses are more of a directive and the time spent with an individual may be brief if even properly addressed at all.

Again, thanks everyone for your feedback.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

1. Yes. You can either sign up for just vertical only or vertical and lateral.

Well, despite my warning a code change wouldn't be the end of the world; but it would certainly be something I would try to avoid. Plus, you could also try it this way to hopefully avoid a code change:

Take only vertical first. If you pass great; if you don't pass then take both vertical and lateral the second time. Then if you should need another attempt at lateral then you'll still likely get it in before any code changes loom on the horizon.

2. NCEES is fairly tight lipped about code changes. They only announce it something like 5 months before the exam (it says on their website when they announce code changes).

3. Yes, there is a chat box during lectures and a forum (or email) to ask questions. If someone asks a question that is hard to answer over text alone I usually make a little video working through the problem on a whiteboard. There is also "office hours" which I typically use to go through example problems that people request.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH, MA)
American Concrete Industries

http://www.americanconcrete.com

 

[Rabbit12]

AllStructural,

Take them in one shot. I had an experience much like njlutzwe's. Took both and passed gravity. Re-took lateral the following spring and passed it. As nj says if you work at a firm that exposes you to the four major building materials (steel, concrete, wood and masonry) that gives you a very good base for the SE test.

The SE test is tough and shouldn't be taken lightly but you don't need to kill yourself preparing for it. Study and prepare within reason.