Residential Development in "Pine Savanna" wetlands

[beej67]

I have a client who owns all the undeveloped lots on an older residential subdivision about 15 minutes drive from New Orleans. Land has some floodplain issues and other issues on it, and he originally pulled me in to examine and potentially contest some FEMA reclassification of his land that was done as part of some Post Katrina work.

He mentioned to me today in email that some of his lots are wholly or partially "Pine Savanna," according to a delineation done by a previous potential buyer.

Roads and utilities are in, and have been for years, so infrastructure isn't an issue. What sort of ball of wax is a potential home builder into to build out one of these things? I'm guessing a nationwide 404 and buying some mitigation credits?



Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

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[cvg]

"Pine Savanna" does not equal "wetlands" nor does it equal "Waters of the US". Your client needs to do his own delineation to determine if anything is wetlands or WUS. Unless it is part of a large, intact tract of forest than it may have limited value for the local ecosystem. However, what do I know, I am not a local expert which is what he needs to do this work.

 

[beej67]

That's what I initially thought, but a quick google search indicates some major wetlands mitigation projects are changing loblolly pine forests to "pine savanna" and getting credits for it. Hence the question.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

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[Ron]

beej67....they can classify and re-classify a dozen times, but the fact remains that such areas are characterized by poorly drained sands, often with high organic content. Makes for both structural and stormwater management challenges.

 

[beej67]

There are other site challenges as well, like the aforementioned flood plain issues. My interest in this right now is to try and identify exactly what an individual home builder would have to deal with if he buys a lot that's been classified as "pine savanna," to evaluate the per-lot economic impact of the classification, and to advise my client whether he should pay to have an official classification done. (the previous one was unofficial) To advise him properly, I need to understand whether "pine savanna" counts as a typical wetland down there, and if so what permitting and mitigation will typically run. Simple questions, hoping for some simple guidance out of eng-tips.





Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[beej67]

You're down in Florida, right Ron? Do you have "pine savanna" as described in the NO area, and if so does it trip a 404?

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[Ron]

beej67...not a category I've had to deal with down here. Ours are just typical wetland mitigation and trade-off. I believe the "pine savanna" designation has more particular criteria and probably a bit more regulation than typical. Check with the State of Louisiana Conservation group for forest and wetland mitigation.

 

[beej67]

I'll do that.

I did find a FLUCCS listing for it though, FYI Ron.

http://publicfiles.dep.state.fl.us/...land Field Guides/626 Hydric Pine Savanna.doc

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[Ron]

beej67...thanks for the link. Never made the connection between what we've typically called "flatwoods" or "scrub". I grew up near an area known as "The Big Scrub". Learn something new every day!!

 

[Phidelt218]

Based on the definition it sounds like it might be considered wetlands, but it is hard to because that description did list if anything is obligate wetlands or facilitative wetlands. But normally on wetlands you need to meet 3 criteria: soils, vegetation and hydrology. You can meet 2 and not the 3rd and the area would not be considered wetlands I believe. It would be easiest to get a environmentalist out there to do a delineation I would think. I am not sure how it is in NO but in Alaska USACE get interested in some floodplains impacted by projects.