Residential Framing Investigation

[TRAK.Structural]

See below for some pictures from a potential client looking to remove the existing island/posts at the kitchen. There is a floor above that overlooks the great room, and it also looks like there are some posts coming down from the roof in this area. I don't have any measurements on the space yet but from the pictures if the posts on the first floor are removed it looks like the clear span in this area would be over 20 feet. What are others out there routinely doing to determine the framing layout for the floor/roof above in order to track loads down for the new opening? I've not investigated a layout quite like this before, any best guesses as to how the 2nd floor is framed here? For simpler construction I can usually figure it out with a stud finder and looking in the attic but for something like this I'm inclined to ask for some ceiling cuts to make sure.

 

[rowingengineer]

I would ask for a few holes, we use snake cameras to keep the holes small in size.

 

[Eng16080]

I recently did a project where the contractor was able to remove some of the cannister lights in the ceiling to get a view of the floor framing above.

Sometimes on jobs like this I'll assume the worst case in terms of framing layout, and if that results in a reasonable solution, I'll leave it at that. That might not cut it here, though, with a 20 ft span.

If you base your design on non-conservative assumptions, be sure to include a note on the plans for the contractor to verify conditions.

 

[alt0]

I usually direct them to cut a couple holes in the ceiling to verify framing directions/sizes. Saves some headache later on instead of assuming.

 

[jerseyshore]

I recently did a project where the contractor was able to remove some of the cannister lights in the ceiling to get a view of the floor framing above.

Sometimes on jobs like this I'll assume the worst case in terms of framing layout, and if that results in a reasonable solution, I'll leave it at that. That might not cut it here, though, with a 20 ft span.

If you base your design on non-conservative assumptions, be sure to include a note on the plans for the contractor to verify conditions.

Lights, access panels, and other ceiling accessories can certainly help find floor direction. Great tips.

I also usually assume worst case if I have no clue of the direction. Typically around here, the 2nd floor follows the 1st floor direction unless it's a really old or really new house. So a quick look in the basement/ crawlspace can help.

I also always encourage the homeowner to look for plans or request a public records request with the town building department. Usually only works for houses built in the 90s or newer but always worth a shot IMO.

Worst worst case you just ask for a hole. No one wants to do it at this stage but it's way better than a much larger (or smaller) beam than needed further down the line.

 

[SWComposites]

Do you have a dimensioned floor plan for all floors?
Can you get into the attic to determine the roof framing?
Is there are basement? Crawlspace?
Which way do the floor joists run?
Are there posts / piers in the basement / crawlspace aligned with those first floor columns?
My first response to client would be “are you crazy?” followed by “thats likely to require a very large steel beam, and lots of demo work.”
What is in the walls where the beam would end? What is under those locations in the basement / crawlspace?

 

[TRAK.Structural]

Some good advice here, thanks all.

SW - Yes these are all my questions, and the purpose of the requested structural evaluation. The owner has found some drawings but I haven't seen them yet, hopefully they provide some insight.