Resource for colored/striped wire for automotive harness building?

[JonathanK]

Hi all -

Considering re-wiring much of my custom wiring loom on my BMW. I can't find a good resource that sells many colors of wire. McMaster Carr has like 8 or 9 colors and that's nice but I was hoping for like basic colors + stripes and such so I can pin out an 80 pin connector with more-unique coloring.

Anyone know of a kit or something that sells like maybe 25' of 12+ color wire?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[patprimmer]

Strip it out of the looms from wrecked cars.

Regards
Pat
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[JonathanK]

Many times the wiring in older passenger cars is aging. I'd much prefer a new resource as this car is a brand new re-wire/build and has milspec/racing connectors.

 

[patprimmer]

Sorry, I didn't realise it had "racing" connectors.

I guess your really going to be shoveling something brown runny and smelly up a steep hill with a pointy stick then.

I do realise though that PE or PVC insulation is pretty durable except where it gets quite hot or exposed to UV light. It never gets UV exposure if you wrap it properly with tape.

Copper seems pretty durable also. Of course a lack of racing connectors is a real problem. I normally get over that by squeezing the connectors a bit with pliers to make a nice tight fit. I also route and support the cables well. Even racing flat bottom boats in a salt water environment and dessert type off road racing doesn't seem to require racing connectors in my experience.

14 volts or less is not exactly prone to flashing over air gaps or blowing through cracked insulation.

Older cars actually typically have thicker wire and thicker insulation.

Regards
Pat
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[evelrod]

Over the years I have amassed a large volume of color coded wire in 10 thru 24g, mostly 16g and 18g for my use. I have used AN connectors, but when my assembly tool broke a few years ago, I have gone back to regular automotive connectors and, as Pat says, just crimp them a bit harder. I also often solder joints and always cover everything with shrink tubing. Also, since I make my own schematic drawings, I get to pick the colors.

For cheap supplies you can try any of the race parts outlets, Pegasus, Summit, Jegs, etc. or, alternately, Harbor Freight, depending on how critical your assembly is going to be. "Parts is Parts" I suppose, but I'd be cautious about just how 'cheap' I'd be willing to go!

Rod

 

[JonathanK]

Pat - I am not sure why the sarcasm or abrasiveness? Unless I am picking that up incorrectly.

The vehicle is a 700 rwhp turbo BMW and I have one lengths to use adel wiggins tubing assemblies and milspec connectors where possible. However, I am considering re-wiring the car to clean it up and want to try and continue/maintain the quality throughout. I have Tefzel and PTFE shielded twisted pair where applicable but obviously things like intake air temp and oil temperature need not run on that. Just looking for a good source! Used wire is a good suggestion but definitely not on this particular build. Heat makes the vinyl insulation brittle and crack - not looking to induce more issues. Hoping to find a good source for new wire.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

You should have no problem using wire yanked from a car that's only a few years old (if it really bugs you that much)... 20-yo cars still on the road with wires still holding up without issue. Besides, a few years in a normal engine bay will mean nothing compared to a few months in a bay with 700hp cranking out heat.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[MikeHalloran]

While we're sort of on the subject, I think modern Weather-Pak and similar connectors are far superior for the automotive environment to 'Mil-Spec' connectors. ... not least because not all MS connectors have weatherseals or strain relief built in. They are usually sold as pins + inserts + shells, and people tend to forget (or not be aware of the existence of, or be sticker-shocked by) the auxiliary backshells with strain relief and/or weather protection that are required to attain true military performance.

Not to mention that nobody wants to buy the approved controlled-cycle crimp tools that are required to attain rated performance for any connector, and are especially critical for 'high tech' connector series. Appropriate or acceptable Weather-Pak tools are made in much greater volumes than are Mil approved crimpers, and carry somewhat lower price tags.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[evelrod]

Jonathan, a good source for surplus wire for me was the old Thursday sale at Douglas Long Beach...However, any good aircraft surplus shop should have a supply of very high grade wire to your specs. I have a bunch, but I choose to use more flexible stuff...My cars don't fly...at least on purpose. ;o)

Don't worry about Pat, he's always like that. He is fast approaching 'old fart' status and us old farts must stick up for one another. ;-)

Rod

 

[MikeHalloran]

Oh.
Stay away from TFE insulated wire if at all possible.
It takes three men and a boy to get a grip on it so you can strip it.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[JonathanK]

Thanks all - I am using Deutsch DTM connectors with strain relief boots as well as tyco/ampeal Super Seal II connectors on the ECU.

I really don't try to shortcut anything. Also, to strip the PTFE you just need the right stripper

I wish I could a retailer for the wire. I have some old (now 13 years old though) BMW engine harnesses but I just don't like how the insulation feels. I bet I can crack it with bends.

 

[thruthefence]

How about using the Lucas colour scheme? I think it would be a hoot at the next bench racing session.

These guys will even sell you the cloth wrapped stuff!

http://www.britishwiring.com/

Give you a chance to recycle all those tired "Prince of darkness" jokes with a Teutonic twist!!

I just acquired a ton of mil spec wire & a Danials crimping kit from a defunct corporate flight department, culled out what I wanted for the Lotus project, and resold the rest at a profit. As noted, the benefits of an aircraft cannon type connector (except for the wank factor) are overstated.

Have you checked the Bimmer fan-boy web sites?

 

[patprimmer]

If you need that sort of temperature resistance, TFE or PEEK coated wire is far better than PVC, however it is normally only used for aerospace or in very hot appliances like ovens.

Materials used in ovens are normally to heavier gauge, so it is most likely your aerospace supplier.

TFE and especially PEEK insulated wire is very expensive but it sounds like cost is not an issue but appearance and perceived quality is.

Nylon 11 or 12 coated might also be available and is very tough and a lot better than PVC but also pretty scarce.

Polyester block co-polymer coated wires have also bee made. Usually marketed under the DuPont trade name of Hytrel. It is extremely tough and reasonably flexible, but unlikely realistically available retail.

To strip slippery wire like TFE coated, just wrap it around something round a few times to get a grip.

Silicone rubber coated wire is also temperature resistant (hence its use in high tension leads) but it is soft and prone to abrasion and cuts.

TFE is also fairly soft and easily squashed out or cut.

PEEK is hard and tough.

I was sarcastic as my BS meter went through the roof on the "racing" connectors comment. Second hand wire from inside the cabin area works fine if it is rated to your needs. The unique nature of your needs was not indicated or even hinted at in the OP.

I have only ever seen the complex colour coding systems used by auto OEM in auto OEM wire. I ave not seen aerospace looms, but have seen material specs as I supplied those types of materials over the years.

You will find a few real racers (not pseudo wanna be racers) here and a few OEM engineers and a few real rocket scientists for that matter. They tend not to help if they see fashion statements or BS. Keep it pragmatic, unaffected and factual and you will be swamped with useful comment. Some of the most helpful here enjoy an occasional sarcastic swipe. Most take it as a wake up call or just messing around.

Describing quality of parts as "racing" is the hallmark of a pseudo racer or wannabe and that often gets you red flagged and deleted.

A comment like I need high temperature resistance as it is xxx from the exhaust and we get yyy exhaust temperatures or I need EMI shielding or I need resistance to water or oil or whatever would get a much more positive result.

Regards
Pat
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[thruthefence]

Pat, regarding the identification scheme on aircraft wiring harnesses, They are stamped, or imprinted with a standard code, eg something like "L50A20", "L" being the system, in this case "lighting", "50" the specific wire in this system, "A" is it's location in the wire run between connectors, "20" being the wire gauge. If you are terminating a ground, add an "N" to the code, in our case a ground for a lamp would be "L50C20N".

Not everyone uses this system, but it's pretty common.

I think it's ATA spec 100.

 

[evelrod]

TTF, there is one good thing to say about the Lucas code, having worked on British cars for over 50 years, the code stayed pretty much the same. I don't even need to check the book most of the time. I really hated to see the British auto industry die...well, move 'off shore'. The new cars have lost most of their "personality"....Bummer.

Rod

 

[thruthefence]

Yeah, the "charm" is pretty much gone. I was watching Jags being built on the Speed Channel the other night. All the robots made it look like a scene from a "terminator" movie.

I wonder how they build Morgans these days?
Maybe I don't want to know..................

 

[bradrs]

A little late for the response, but did you try searching for striped wire? I did a search for "GXL striped" and it immediately popped up with several vendors, including eficonnection.com:

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/Wire.aspx

Waytek will stripe wire if you order a spool of it, and Waytek is a decent source of GXL. GXL, if you are unfamiliar, is a decent automotive grade of wire. Sure you can spend mega $ getting more, but the GXL and TXL stuff are used in OEMs, and perfectly up to the task.

I am unimpressed with the DTM connectors, and not even sure that I would call them "racing", as Deutsch has a line of far superior Autosport connectors. The DTM have so-so current handling, and I have seen quite a few allow water to get past the seals. Plus dealing with Deutsch is generally a headache.

You can get all sorts of OEM connectors from Mouser, for probably a good bit less than what you are spending for Deutsch. The Weatherpack stuff mentioned is good, just a bit large. I prefer the GT150, GT280 series from Delphi, or the MX150 series from Molex. Definitely one of those preference things though, there are loads of different connector series out there. And I think Mouser stocks 90% of them.

 

[DanEE]

I needed same for some vehicle instrument and control wiring modifications and wanted to match the color coding of the wiring I was tapping into.

I had a number of instrument panel mounted control head to trunk mounted GE Master II VHF/UHF commercial 2 way mobile radios, complete with their wiring harnesses.

The harnesses were a good 18 feet long and just coiled up and not cut to length at installation, due to the unique connectors on each end of the harnesses and a good source of high temperature rated insulation, stranded wiring.

The wiring harness is a good 3/4"+ diameter jacked bundle of mostly 18 gauge, a few 16 and 14 gauge wires and two external six gauge wires for power. Never counted the wires, but based on the connectors, I think there's around 48 unique wires and color combinations in the bundle, e.g. solid colors with tracer stripes to make up that many color combinations...

If you can find any similar older generation electronic systems designed with remote control heads to be located some distance away, you may luck out..

 

[Ralph2]

If you are still looking.. try some crane supply places.. they repaired the pendants at our place a week ago and I never saw such a collection of color coded wire.

 

[NickJ67]

Presume you are US based? Somebody must sell it. There are two or three places here in the UK that specialise in automotive wiring products and at least one of those even does a decent range of thicknesses, colours and stripes in the high temperature thinwall style. Google vehicle wiring products..... Generally the US is FAR better served for after-market car stuff - I buy things and get them shipped over from time to time.

I usually raid junkyards myself as most junkyard cars are younger than mine these days. The wiring on my late 60s Triumphs is still hanging on in there just a few sections under the bonnet/hood renewed over the years when they got a bit crispy.

Nick