Responsibility for correcting a mistake 2

[ACtrafficengr]

I'm a county engineer responsible for highway work permits. A contractor building a subdivision obtained a permit to connect two subdivision roads to our road. A condition of the permit was we wanted to inspect the curb ramp forms before the concrete was placed, to correct any issues while it was still easy to do so.

Our inspector approved the forms, and the completed curb ramps. I went out to do a final check before releasing the bond, and found all four ramps are grossly out of compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act standards. The curb ramps tie into asphalt gutter with a 12% foreslope. [img

https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1471527180/tips/20160727_135906_vwmqtp.jpg

Taking a second look, the design plans show the asphalt gutter across the curb ramps. The contractor's engineer made a mistake and I missed it during the permit plan review.

It seems to me that the county, the contractor and the contractor's engineer are all currently at risk for civil rights* and/or tort** lawsuits should a pedestrian have a problem traversing the ramps. We each have a responsibility and an interest in fixing it. The question is how.

*The ADA isn't just a design standard. It's civil rights law.

**Tort liability check:

1. Is there a duty? Yep, right in the ADA law.
2. Was that duty breached? Pretty obviously.
3. Did anyone sustain injury or harm due to the breach? No ... not yet.

 

[coloeng]

The question that needs to be asked, Is the County willing to help pay to fix the problem? I've seen too many times where the jurisdiction makes a mistake,but the owner or contractor end up having to pay to fix it.

 

[PEDARRIN2]

I work for a design firm and see this a lot as well.

Whose PE stamp is on the drawings? In my opinion, that is who is responsible for the non code compliant design and should be responsible for the cost. It is called error and omissions.

Yes, the AHJ should have caught it, but it is the contractor or the design firm who is responsible for faulty design. They should have quality control steps in place to make sure mistakes are not made.

 

[ACtrafficengr]

coloeng, that seems fair enough, but it's above my pay grade.

I suppose the county doesn't have to pay cash. Does this seem reasonable? Their consultant engineer corrects his design, our maintenance crews demo the existing improper work, and the contractor rebuilds it correctly. I'll suggest that to the commissioner.

 

[wannabeSE]

but it's above my pay grade

Can you work with the contractor to get it fixed and let the people above your pay grade figure out who is pays for it later? I get structural RFIs and more often the not, the contractor indicates there may be cost implications. If there is any possibility that we are liable, I let the higher-ups know, and move forward with a safe solution.

 

[SkiisAndBikes]

I was taught early on in my career that whenever a problem arises, the best option is to address a resolution quickly. In the end, it will be the cheapest, most efficient, most ethical option. Will it cost money... Likely... But much less if left until an issue arises later. Get everyone to a meeting to discuss resolution and make sure the end result complies with the appropriate codes, etc...

 

[rowingengineer]

Lets kill the engineer, we are a all narcissists arent we engineers.

My quenstion is if you aduited every ramp, how many would not pass muster? My guess is a mumber wouldn't, why are these not fix? My guess costs of doing so, what is the difference between this ramp and those other non complaint ramps?

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[PEDARRIN2]

"what is the difference between this ramp and those other non complaint ramps?"

This ramp (or this design) is on my project so that is the difference.

I cannot control what other people/engineers/contractor's do, but if it is my design, I want it to be right and if it were my PE stamp on the drawings, I am responsible, whether it is expensive or not.

Now, if the AHJ wants to offer $$ to defray the cost due to not catching the mistake on their review, that is fine.

But I would not excuse the engineer or pass the cost on to the owner.

 

[ACtrafficengr]

"what is the difference between this ramp and those other non-complaint ramps?

Most non-compliant ramps are only slightly out of whack. These are bad enough to cause difficulties or injuries to the people they are meant to help. They are steep enough to cause loss of control going down the ramp, some people may have insufficient strength to go up the ramp, and so forth. Because they are at an angle to the sidewalk, wheelchairs are likely to have one wheel up in the air as they go over the ramp. It could also be a trip hazard to blind walkers.

Also, I've heard rumors lately of the US Justice Department auditing nearby municipalities and giving them a three-year limit to bring all their curb ramps into compliance, instead of doing it as they improve the roads they are on. We would like to avoid that.

 

[Forensic74]

And here I thought plan reviewers took the stance that their reviews were done on a "best effort" basis. I find missed issues all the time in my inspections.....its not the reviewer's job to 100% quality check the plans. The engineer should be grateful you caught this at any stage of construction; do you know how much pain and money is involved with a slip and fall case????

 

[coloeng]

ACTraffic, I missed the part where you said the Contractor's Engineer made a mistake on the plans. In that case it should fall to the design engineer to pay for the fix.

 

[ACtrafficengr]

coloeng, looking at the plans again, I think the designer's mistake is more of an unclear detail than an outright mistake.