Rotary hydrogen steam engine 2

[greendoor]

Does anyone know any more about this?


Rotary Hydrogen Engine -- From New Zealand. A clean-burning rotary hydrogen engine is being worked on by a group in New Zealand. Here's a statement from the principle member of the team, Wolf Brinsbury: STEAM ENGINE WITHOUT A BOILER As hydrogen is much hotter than our present fuels, we are looking to turn this into an advantage rather than a problem (as it has been considered in ordinary internal combustion engines, causing an overheating of valves). What we propose with our rotary engine is to use this higher temperature of the hydrogen as a catalyst or trigger. We use water injection along with a small amount of hydrogen. On igniting, the heat turns the water vapor into high pressure steam on each power stroke. We are not looking at power being derived from the hydrogen. It will be from the steam with the hydrogen as the internal heat source. This being the reverse of the present steam engine, where a large body of water is heated externally. We use a small body of water internally. To dissociate the hydrogen and oxygen in water without electrolysis requires a temperature of 800 degrees F. Water per volume expands 1700 times during that change, exerting tremendous force. This force is elastic, not like the hammer blows of the internal combustion engine. The diesel engine obtains its heat from high compression of the air reaching temperatures of 1000 degrees or more. This though, creates back pressure which is power loss on the up stroke. With hydrogen and water we eliminate this. I cannot use the term "stroke" as we have no piston, a round rotor revolves in a circle in one direction. Our first aim is to move into the marine field. We are looking to get away from the burning of fossil fuels and the pollution of this planet. The oil companies are naturally limited in their lifespan. If you would like to contact this group, you can write to the following address.
Please realize that merely curious inquiries will consume time, and cannot be guaranteed a response. The need is for serious investors to become involved to speed up the development of this work: Wolf Brinsbury 15 Gibson Place Howick, Auckland NEW ZEALAND Or try a search.
Website with Photos link stopped working, sorry. Email also appears to not work. Can someone put me back in contact with Wolf?

From this link

http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/rotary.html

 

[NickE]

Hmmm... is the calorie output of hydrogen sufficient to produce enough energy to disassociate a significant amount of water? And how is the cycle started? There are bunches of other questions too.

 

[shbazjinkens]

I'm fairly sure they're talking about an obscure engine design that I'm familiar with. It was invented in America (so far as I know) and patented as 1,095,190. It was re-invented in Canada by John Nowakowski (patent search at the Canadian office will turn that up) and has come up again a few times, once by Nowakowski's grandson in an Arizona (I think) University where he and an engineering team made an aluminum prototype ICE. It's been used as a steam engine as seen in patent 6,142,758 by Henry Engine Co. I've been thinking of ways to improve it for a while now, it has a lot of interesting properties that allow for using an ICE in ways previously impossible.

 

[GregLocock]

Using water as an adjunct in an internal combustion engine is a well known technology. The thermodynamic effects have been studied for at least 100 years, anybody with an engineering degree should be able to work out the advantages and disadvantages.

Using hydrogen as the fuel is neither here nor there to that side of things.

Hydrogen is a terrific fuel, in some respects, for an internal combustion engine, but until we find a sensible way of making it then it will remain a curiousity with little practical impact, apart from on headlines, and investor's wallets.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[ivymike]

you can tell this one is pure snake oil:
We are not looking at power being derived from the hydrogen. It will be from the steam with the hydrogen as the internal heat source.
These two statements are contradictory - if you're using the hydrogen to generate the steam, then the combustion of the hydrogen is providing all of the input energy, and thus the power is being derived from the hydrogen.
To dissociate the hydrogen and oxygen in water without electrolysis requires a temperature of 800 degrees F. Um, says who? You can certainly make steam at that temperature (and higher, and lower) - but the hydrogen and oxygen aren't dissociated!
Water per volume expands 1700 times during that change, exerting tremendous force. This force is elastic, not like the hammer blows of the internal combustion engine.
This is just silly - either one has an "elastic force" inside, due to the pressure of the gases acting on the surfaces of the comb. chamber! The maximum pressure will determine the severity of the loading on the engine internals, not the "elasticity" of the gases.

 

[patprimmer]

Like Greg and Issac say.

Also, you still have to get the energy to make the hydrogen in the first place.

Presuming it was possible by a method similar to that described, (a big assumption) once you dissociate the hydrogen and oxygen, then in the presence of an ignition source the two elements would react very quickly to re-establish the much more stable compound of water. with the release of exactly the same amount of energy it took to separate them in the first place.

But then again, if you could extract a little of the dissociated hydrogen, by just adding it with water to the next cycle, then condensing the water out of the exhaust. YE GODS!!!! ANOTHER PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE. We are saved.



Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[unclesyd]

Use Deterium and enough pressure and we have the ultimate self sustaining engine.

 

[adfka]

Is it fair to say that a super efficient engine would have exhaust temps approaching ambient and exhaust pressures as low as possible?

 

[GregLocock]

Yes, but that isn't the whole story. A more efficient engine also makes its heat transfers at the highest possible temperature, amongst other things.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.