RTsumT Suggestions 3

[Beggar]

Greetings, all.

On the day after Labor Day, I had the misfortune to be laid off. I'm now undergoing the painful process of trying to find a new job.

I'm in the unenviable position of being 42 years old with my longest tenure at any job being 4 years and having just been laid off for the 3rd time and looking for my 7th professional gig. I certainly know how bad that looks and am trying to figure out the best way to display my résumé.

Here's a brief history:

* 4 years after graduation, I got hit during the devastation that swept through the Southern California defense industry during the early '90s.

* I then took 3 years to go back to school in the unsuccessful pursuit of a now-dead dream.

* I became engaged and started a new job at a small family-run business that was trying to grow. The commute was too long and it was tough working for "mom & pop" and the "3 little pigs" who ran the company so I left after 1 year to take what seemed a great opportunity very close to home.

* 20 months into my new job at a small division of a Fortune 50 company (during the tech boom), extreme financial problems became evident, layoffs started, and there was talk of divestiture and a management buyout. I got out while the getting was good and took what seemed to be a great opportunity with another Fortune 50 company.

* 2.5 years later, that company decided to close our plant and laid me off with everybody else.

* I took the only job I could find at a screwed up little family run place that had serious legal and ethical issues and horrible morale (not to mention crappy pay and nonexistent benefits). One day, 18 months in, I received an unsolicited phone call from somebody that I'd interviewed with long ago and decided to pursue another "great opportunity" with a tiny start-up company.

* As of Tuesday, I'd been with the start-up for 2 years when all of the capital was consumed without meeting its goals for further funding. The investor has offered a bit more money but is ending further engineering. The 3 guys left have to make it with what they've got. As the highest paid tech guy, I'm the odd man out.

So, here I sit trying to figure out how to pick up the pieces of my tattered career which I'm expecting to be quite difficult. My questions for all of you are:

Given the short tenures, do you think I should consider adding a "Left Because" line to each employer I list? Or, does that just emphasize the issue?

What about foregoing my dates of employment altogether and simply list the dates of my education, my various responsibilities and achievements, and then a simple list of the company names (3 of which are very well known)?

Any thoughts you'd care to share would be welcome. I'm particularly interested in the views of those of you who'd automatically pass over somebody with a work history such as mine. Why would you? What would be your concerns? Could they be assuaged or, realistically, probably not given the brevity of the résumé review process? (Presuming that I've got skill-set match but am certainly not a subject-matter expert in much of anything...sort of the "jack of many trades" type.)

Thanks for taking the time to read this long post.

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How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

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[wes616]

Hi Beggar,

Wow man - don't really know what to say - thats tough to take. I think you are on the right track with the Resume that focuses on skillset and responsibility and not employer.

Maybe look at re-tooling your resume to be more like a "consultant". Replace "workplaces experience" with "areas of intrest" or "areas of responsibility". Then you can provide a list of places where you worked in those areas either separately or within the body of the description.

Then again, if you are trying to stick it out in the "startup" world, then all of those layoffs are like eyecandy to the startup recruiter / human resourses person.

Wes C.
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Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

[Beggar]

I hope I'm done with the start-up world. The pay was great and the payoff potential was enormous but the cost to my family life was too severe.

I would *love* to find a job with a nice stable company that pays an OK salary.

My first two voluntary switches were presumed to be just that since they were to huge companies. Since then, though, I've just been scrambling to keep food on the table.

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

--------------------

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Hang in there.

Layoffs happen; they suck, but they happen. Look at it this way: you've been through tough times and tougher times. You also have a lot of diverse experience.

Have you considered working for the Federal government?

See what's offered at

http://www.usajobs.gov.

There are technical and PM jobs all over the place.

 

[IRstuff]

Well, it's certainly a pickle.

In any case, you certainly need to stress your desire for a long-term job up front as your job objective on your resume and try to head off questions about your tenures as early as possible. Perhaps something along the lines of:

Sad Startup 9/04-9/06(LO)

with a footnote defining LO

TTFN

 

[kontiki99]

Beggar,

There is almost certainly a firm out there looking for someone with exactly your background and specialties (what ever they are), hang in there.

 

[Ashereng]

Beggar,

Sorry to hear about the layoff.

In regards to your resume, and your work history, my advise is to not worry about it.

I have two sections to my resume - skills/experience and chronological.

In the chronological, I put all the dates in. If you leave off the dates completely, it will look to me like you have something to hide. I would rather work with someone honest, than someone who I distrust. That is a red flag to me.

Also, you did what you did. If circumstances change, and you would prefer something different, then I would suggest you highlight your new priorities, rather than worrying about your past. As they say ... water under the bridge.

Highlight what you can offer, indicate what you now want. If someone has a problem with your history, then chances are, you probably won't want to to there for very long even if you "slipped one pass them during the interview" and got the job.

If you are looking for something long term now, you want to be upfront with them from the get go. That is what I'd be looking for if I was interviewing you.

Good luck.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[KENAT]

Beggar,

You could try what I believe is termed a 'functional' resume rather than chronological resume.

I wouldn't leave off the dates, at least not all of them, but like Asherang kind of implies push them to the bottom, maybe sheet 2 if it's that long.

Whatever you do, and as if you needed telling, don't go to any of the 'free' resume review services on line. They basically tell you it's rubbish and offer to re-write it for a few hundred $.

All the best in the search.

Ken

 

[Heckler]

Beggar,

Sorry to the bad news or maybe somehow you can turn it into good news. Did you get any compensation to hold you through the job search process? Was it you that stated you had a "lay-off" clause in your hiring agreement?

Anyway, from what you stated your professional job history seems a lot like mine and most likely 75% of the engineers in our industry. I have been bouched from the high tech (semicon cap equip) to defense work over the last ten years. I would suggest you be prepared to talk about why you have had so many different jobs and put a positive spin on it. The two types of resume's being chronological and functional. I would suggest doing a functional resume' that way you can sum up your skills in one page. But also develope a chronological resume' if an interested company might request it.

Best of luck and keep us posted. What's your geographic location?

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

 

[Heckler]

Beggar,

I've uploaded a couple of resume's I found on the net when I was polishing up my resume'.

http://www.savefile.com/files/59504

http://www.savefile.com/files/59510

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

 

[corus]

On average you'll be made redundant about 2 or 3 times in your working life so your history is nothing new, it just happened sooner than most.
The point of doing a resume is to make sure it doesn't get thrown into the bin with the other hundreds of people who applied for a job. I was told by recruitment consultants not to do a resume that said I can do this, I can do that etc., but make it a list of achievements that show your skills. Never make it more than 2 pages long as people get bored reading someone's life history. Add a short summary of a few lines at the beginning (for those who get bored very quickly), and always put on the dates of your employment history. If there are any gaps then they'll ask you in the interview. Just say something like you went back to school to increase your skills potential. Never say why you left a company on a resume but leave it for the interview. They're bound to ask anyway. Lastly, never lie but there's no harm in being economical with the truth, as one politican said.

corus

 

[zdas04]

Don't hide anything. Just talk about why you started at the next job instead of why you quit the old job.

Don't say:
xx/xxx/xxxx to xx/xxx/xxxx Mom and Pop and the 3 little pigs, started because I had to have a job, left because they were stealing.

x/xxx/xxx to xx/xxx/xxxx Startup Co, ran out of money

Say:
xx/xxx/xxxx Mom and Pop, worked on developing widgets, role was head innovator

xx/xxx/xxxx Startup Co, Worked on an exciting new widget, supervised design activities and a staff of four

See the difference, don't say why you left, say why you started at the new company. May seem subtle, but reading your chronlolgy above it comes across as a series of "its not my fault" sort of excuses. Maybe its not your fault, but a CV is no place to place blame.

The technique of just putting start dates is not dishonest and it really isn't your fault that most job interviewers don't do the math. It also obscures any time spent in the active job market.

David

 

[Beggar]

Thanks, everybody, for the feedback and encouragement.

DaveVikingPE, thanks for the link. There is actually a job near by that I'm going to apply for. I'd never considered looking there. You're right about the diverse skills and experience. To that, I promote the ease with which I can fit into an organization (practice makes perfect, they say) and how accustomed I am with change.

KENAT, et. al.: The functional resume certainly seems a better fit at this point. Good suggestion.

Heckler, I am about 30 minutes west of Sacramento. I've seen a few postings that seem to fit my skillset and I'm hopeful I'll be staying closer to home (I've been commuting like a madman). I do have some severance promised (but not paid yet) so, along with my wife's PT gig, we're stable for quite some time. Thanks, also, for the samples you posted.

reading your chronlolgy above it comes across as a series of "its not my fault" sort of excuses.

Thanks, David. Very good advice. I'm not surprised it comes across that way because I have this tinge of guilt about it this desire to explain it away. You are so right that the CV is no place for that. I like your suggestion regarding the dates.

As somebody said earlier, it is what it is and I am what I am. When I talk about the situation face-to-face, it seems to come off better than it does as I've written it.

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

--------------------

 

[GregLocock]

FWIW I am 45 and have had 6 jobs (5 different companies, one I came back to). So I don't think 7 at the age of 42 is too unusual.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[HVACctrl]

All good advice so far.
Adding to what David said, on one hand you don't want to look like you are trying to make it seem like its not your fault. However, you may also want to use some caution in stating that you left A to go to B due to a more exciting widget and more people to supervise. What I mean is that you may have to quickly get a feel for the potential company mentality and play towards that. Some companies may look more favorably on the fact that your last company was in financial trouble (and hence it wasn't your fault) while they could look down on you jumping on to a new ship too quickly just for a new exciting widget to design. Other companies might look at that jump (for the new widget and more supervisory role) as ambitious and the need for more responsibility.

Either could work, but try to use the one that fits the culture.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[MikeHalloran]

My most recent resume leads with a couple of actual quotes, like "Best damn... " etc., and is politely but brutally honest about reasons for leaving, e.g. "Tried (something new); failed.", which are included for the last several jobs.

It's provoked unsolicited emails from several headhunters, along the lines of "Not many working engineers can 'tell it like is', sorry we don't have a requisition for such a person right now". ... Which may be an obtuse way of saying "Holy crap! What do you expect to accomplish with _that_?", or may be an actual compliment. With headhunters you can't really tell, but it's unusual for them to even acknowledge an inquiry if they don't have a match, much less initiate something.

The Word version also includes a few low-res color photos (of stuff, not of me), and goes all the way back to college, which in my case is 40 years and 30+ jobs ago. I had to do that, because I've done some fairly cool stuff, and in between I've taken a lot of awful jobs just to put bread on the table.

My experience says "functional" resumes, and resumes with gaps, never, ever, pass HR.

My experience also says that two pages may be the limit for managers or business majors, but not for engineers. Screeners are looking for buzzwords, and decision makers are looking for people who can walk the walk and talk the talk. You need to have the buzzwords to get past the screeners, and you need to have micro- stories of accomplishment to sell the decision makers. Take as much space as you need to tell a story, quickly.

Of course, in order to induce the decision maker to read the stories, the top half of the first page has to grab them by the throat.

Six or seven jobs in 20-ish years should be an easy sell.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[wes616]

Hey Beggar,

I have a friend who had sucess finding a job on Craigslist in the bay area.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/egr/

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/egr/

Wes C.
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No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

 

[Beggar]

Thanks, Wes.

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

--------------------

 

[johnsmith2]

The competition in craigslist is not keen compared with monxxer or careerbuxxxx.

 

[fribby]

The last couple of interviews I have had, they have all been sticklers over the chronology, luckily mine tallies up really well so it wasn't a problem. But from these experiences I would never recommend not including a full chronology. Any gaps inbetween could be interetingly padded out I am sure (as long as you weren't in jail, i guess).

It is definitely worth using an opening paragraph giving a summary of key skills and experiences. Particularly if you know of any buzz words that may pique their interest.