S. 1092, The High-Tech Worker Relief Act of 2007 1

[kontiki99]

Looks like the free market principles of supply and demand in the US job market are about to get another boost.

See -> S. 1092

I see it as an obstacle to prevent the US technical workers that generate the value at US companies from being able to reap the same financial reward the financial managers and attorneys seem to believe they are entitled to.

Opinions?

The comments look like they came from folks that are waiting for a green card.

I couldn’t have been happier when a former employer outsourced the HR department overseas.

 

[moltenmetal]

Hey man- stop complaining. At least you Americans HAVE the H1B program to limit the number of visas granted so that it at least partially matches the labour force demand!

In Canada we have the idiotic "Human Capital Model" of immigration. Bring in smart, educated people, regardless of the need for their skills in the job market, and let the economy sort them out. Deport the illegals who have moved in to fill the jobs vacuum in the trades etc., while thousands of engineers drive taxis. It's idiocy. Have a look at

http://www.geocities.com/martinsmoltenmetal/index.htm

to see the appalling Canadian stats for engineering total supply (grads plus immigrants) vs time. They haven't gotten any better in the past three years...

 

[MikeHalloran]

I find it hard to express how thrilled I am that such a bill is even being contemplated ... in a way that would be acceptable in a public forum.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[SomptingGuy]

Re Canadian immigration...

When I was working in the US (on an H1B of course) it seemed the best way to work legally in the US was to get Canadian citizenship (easier than US??), which allowed them to work in the US. We called these people "Virtual Canadians".

 

[opsops3]

why we have the H1B ? to drive labor cost down and because nobody studies engineering anymore. almost. except migrants to be. we are better to study law and medicine. you can always make your own job

why canandian have an open immigration policy? to drive labor cost down, to increase demand and stimulate the economy by increase in demand for services. is it good or bad? depends I assume good if somewishes to setup a takeaway.

I wonder who claims the survey that Canada is the best place to live? in the world.

 

[dvd]

It's nice to see that our Democratic congress is working for those poor, unfortunate robber-barons. I wish that people would understand that if we want ultra-wealthy individuals in our society that we will all have to make sacrifices.

If engineers were a little smarter we would band together to oppose this type of occurrence, and work to increase our own standard of living. Instead we pays dues to engineering societies that are great places to network. You know, networking is vital to finding another job when you have been replaced with a foreign engineer.

 

[Comcokid]

Lincoln used the phrase in his Gettysburg address "government of the people, by the people, for the people" . Today that phrase would more correctly be stated; "government of big business, by the big business, for big business".

What we need to do is to have H1B visa for executive and CEO positions. That's where the big money savings is!

 

[JAE]

why we have the H1B ? to drive labor cost down and because nobody studies engineering anymore. almost

opsops3 - You may be right in that there is a bit of a shortage of engineers - but I just sat through a graduation event at a major US midwest university and there was a large contingent of engineering graduates there compared to the other degrees...perhaps 1000 or so.

I'm sure there are numbers out there as to "required engineer graduates" vs. "engineer positions available". But there are still a lot of young people going into engineering in the US.

 

[Beggar]

Wonderful...just what we need.

There's no shortage of engineers. Perhaps there's a shortage of engineers who are cheap but possessing the exact experience someone wants with the exact set of specialized skills.

No, let's not provide advanced training. No, let's not hire anybody over 45. No, let's not require a PE to do engineering work.

No, let's just import more engineers from India etc and keep the pool young and cheap.



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[KENAT]

There are shortages of certain types of engineers in certain areas for sure. However this is typically due to high cost of living etc meaning you can't lead the anticipated lifestyle of a graduate engineer for what they are willing to pay you. Rather than fixing the problems of housing costs/transport... it's perhaps easier to import Engineers from countries who are willing to live the life style of a lower paid proffession.

That said our place tried to hire someone from abroad for a lead Engineer position and he said no - cost of living (primarily housing) was too high.

 

[csd72]

opsops3,

Stop your H1B paranoia, how many American engineers are working overseas? If you want the opportunity to work overseas then you have to put up with people doing the same in the US.

Beggar,

I think you are spot on. If there is a shortage of engineers why are many engineering salaries struggling to keep up with inflation, why do you never see companies offering relocation packages for engineers? We are just another commodity to be bought and sold and we can only blame our peers and predecessors for that.

 

[opsops3]

Most of them work for US companies based overseas on US terms.

Unless they ve choose to emigrate from US and thats' another story.

 

[ScottyUK]

Most of them displace indigenous workers in the countries in which they work.

I find it amazing that some otherwise intelligent people - almost exclusively US citizens - start complaining about engineers from other nations working in their country while being completely blind to the reverse situation. American engineers aren't any better or worse than their European counterparts, so why do some people think they are entitled to be treated as special? Smacks of hypocrisy.


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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[Beggar]

Where's the hypocrisy?

By all means, every country should exhaust its own work force before considering allowing folks from other countries to come take the existing jobs.

If there's a shortage in a given area, the answer is training and wage increase, not importation of cheaper foreign labor.

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

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[SomptingGuy]

The hypocrisy is the in-built assumption that it's ok for Americans to go World hopping, stealing local jobs wherever they go. Maybe the locals think of them as "cheaper foreign labour" too?

 

[opsops3]

I agree with Beggar 100% but mostly US CORPORATIONS embrace and champion globalization, that moves capital around, moves jobs around ( nobody really cares about employees) as shareholders can make more money. Yes, US companies move jobs away from other countries as well and not to USA. To give an example a co A buys into comp B that has facilities in country C and now somebody in US decides to move the jobs to China. How about that? Do you really think that the displace workers in country C can chase the jobs to China? Probably not.

 

[ScottyUK]

opsops,

Another hypothetical example, but one which might not be far into the future if we let Country C represent China:

Co. A buy into Co. B in Country C and installs management from the US of A into Co. B. Is that reasonable? How about if the situation reverses and Co. X buys into Co. Y in the US of A and installs a management team from Country C into Co. Y?

I don't see a difference between the two cases, primarily because there isn't one.


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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[Beggar]

SomptingGuy: I haven't seen too many examples of Americans heading overseas to take jobs in Europe and I certainly didn't run into any during my months working in the Netherlands servicing our equipment.

Certainly American corporations may be using some folks from their stateside offices just the Japanese companies will usually bring senior managers from Japan. Is that what you're talking about?

Is there a perception in the UK or elsewhere that Americans are coming in and undercutting the local labor force and suppressing wages?

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

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[opsops3]

scottyuk

only difference is when company C cames in the country A to takeover but the gov says No as it is against national interest see Unicol . Do we want free trade agreements or not or only a partial pick and choose?

 

[SomptingGuy]

Beggar,

I guess the USA (including immediate neighbours??) is still perceived by its residents as an island in the same way the UK was 100 years ok? We moved on.