Salary Negotiation

[DannyGlover]

I was recently offered a salary for the exact job that I am interested in with a company that is very well known in the industry. They are employee owned and offer company ownership in lue of 401k. This isn't bad deal if you don't mind putting your eggs in one basket and basically being tied to the company for 6 years to become vested. Also, you have to hope they don't lower the distribution of stock either. I have been gunning for this position and was ecstatic when I got the voice mail saying they were gong to make me an offer.

The offer is below what the average starting salary for engineers near where I live. I am not fresh out of school. Engineers do well in my local. I haven't done this work before but some of what I have done in the past carries over. Furthermore, I believe in so many ways I am superior to the version of me that just graduated years ago. I don't understand why I would be presented an offer the gives the impression of the contrary.

I have been unemployed and going to grad school for the last two semesters. I can't figure out if they think I will take a pay cut basically because I am really interested in this specialized position or they think I am desperate for money. The part about this that is bothersome is that I think it is a good company but I am afraid that at where they are starting me I am going to always be far below my market value unless I switch companies at some point. It would be hard to stay someplace if after a year I have my masters and PE and I am making as much as a fresh grad.
Maybe, this is just what this company thinks an engineer is worth in this economy. I have been kind of picky where I have been applying and it is a little rough out there but I really believe if I just wanted a paycheck I could land something in a couple of months. What do you guys think about this and what are your opinions on vested ownership?

 

[bigTomHanks]

As long are you are not hurting for money to support yourself or your family then I would flat out ask for what you need to be committed to the job. There is no sense in taking it if the money is an issue right from the start, anything that annoys you will have you out the door. I don't know what they are trying to accomplish but if the pay is not comparable to the rest of the area, they will always be training someone due to high turnover. This will eventually result in the company going under. Sounds like it could be bad management and the whole situation brings up a huge red flag. If upper management is trying to pinch pennies on the backs of their engineers then they aren't going to meet customer requirements and will either have to pay someone a lot of money to come fix everything or go under.

 

[DannyGlover]

I guess I am not the only celebrity engineer.

I am too old for this shit.

 

[Ron]

DG...you're probably over-analyzing this. They probably don't know your current situation...they're just offering what they think the position is worth TO THEM.

Yes, you have an advantage over the new graduate...and yes, they know that....it's probably what got you the offer.

Get in, do your job, prove your worth...then go from there. If it isn't all that you expect...move on. Easier to get a job if you have a job.

 

[GregLocock]

Except that if you go in on a low offer you'll find it very hard to get a significant increase.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[lacajun]

I went through that last year and countered. I won the counter even though they were "pissed" that I would even counter. Ultimately, I had too much experience and they didn't know how to handle me. I tried my best but you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. They had so many problems, and many were ethical, I resigned. I'm glad I did because they're still having the same problems to this very day, almost a year later. That is not a joke! I've never seen an outfit run quite that way.

 

[moltenmetal]

What else are they offering? Profit sharing could clean up the difference between that low offer and what you feel you should be making, but it'd be difficult to trust them that this would be true as it's a big chunk of money.

I'd counter, but have a couple other ploys up your sleeve at the same time. If they won't go for more straight pay, ask for an early review with pay re-evaluation so they can pay you more once they know how good you are.

Don't know how many years of experience you had before your masters, but accepting less than a starting salary is pretty tough to swallow.

 

[mechengdude]

You mention in your post "I think this is a good company". Why? Do you have firsthand knowledge of how they operate and treat their employees or do they have a really good PR staff?

As far as a salary offer goes, there is no harm in countering. When you counter, you should be prepared to "build a case" as to why you are worth more. Saying my Mom always said I was special doesn't cut it. Specific examples of your contributions or cost saving efforts at a previous employer are always good. Additionally, I have found that the HR weenies are good at rebuffing comparisons to salary.com and the like. Stating something to the effect that "those numbers aren't really representative of this location or market.” Counter with an ascertain that you are basing your salary data on firsthand knowledge from colleagues from school.

Good luck.

 

[KENAT]

I'll back up Molten in wondering if there's any other 'compensation' related to the employee owned aspect and if that's why the base pay is lower.

Bear in mind though, even if this is true, some things will be based on 'base pay' not total compensation including bonuses etc. For instance, most loans would probably be based on 'base pay' as I understand it.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[moltenmetal]

That's the great thing about being compensated with a crap salary and great bonus: you can't borrow on the bonus, so you need to live within your means in that respect at least. When I was paid a better salary, I needed more discipline to be frugal. Now I only need that discipline once a year!