Salary to Contractor???? 3

[Gymmeh]

So I got this new job offer starting off as and Autodesk Inventor design engineer and supposedly working into FEA and engineering as I learn. I really like the company, and really want to get into the field of work.

The problem is that they want to pay me $18/hr and hire me like a contractor for the first 3 months. Then depending on my performance I would get a pay increase between $23-25/hr and some health insurance contribution.

Of course this is a large step back from my salary and full benefits, but what I want to get into more CAE.

I asked the manager if they could at least mach my health plan and try to get closer to what I make now. Should you take manger pay cut when changing jobs because they will be “training” you for the first 3 months?

I guess the other question is, isn’t $23-$24/hr more reasonable for drafting as a contractor?

 

[KENAT]

Depends where you are but $18hr for a drafter/designer isn't unheard of.

In SoCal just 3 years ago or so when I was looking they had designer/drafter jobs offering $15.

That said, the word Engineer is in the job description soyou might hope for a bit more, but exempt sometimes plays fast and loose (at least by US standards) with who gets to be an Engineer.

2 thoughts:

1: Can you afford to live at what you consider an acceptable standard on $18 or what ever they end up paying?

2: "supposedly working into FEA and engineering " These things have a habbit of not working out, not saying that's the case here but there's no guarantee.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[Gymmeh]

Well,

Ans 1) I have a really well developed excel budget , and I can live off $18/hr but I can't afford comparable insurance. I myself would live w/o insurance but my family lives off my insurance.

Ans 2) This is my other consern, I have a friend working there that said the boss was strait, but its a hell chance to take.

 

[JMirisola]

Around here, contract positions almost always pay much more than straight salary hours. By hiring you as a contractor, they can kick you to the curb quite easily, though that holds true in "at-will" states as well.
While the training is nice, being without insurance wouldn't be. Can you get them to pony up a "signing bonus" to help you cover COBRA benefits? (you're talking in $$, so I'm assuming you're in the US).
Also, I find it hard to believe that a company will give you a $5-7/hour raise after some training. In your case, that would be ~30% raise. I'd be a little wary.
I don't mean to be a downer here, just playing devil's advocate...

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
Certified DriveWorks AE

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

Dell M90, Core2 Duo
4GB RAM
Nvidia 3500M

 

[KENAT]

Well then, unless you're actually unhappy/dissatisifed/likely to get laid off or whatever at your current place, I'd probably stick around and wait for something better to come along.

The insurance would probably be the decider for me, though having lived in the UK till a few years ago I'm not sure I've really got the hang of it being an issue. Can't see me letting my wife or kids go without, heck not sure I'd want to go without and land them with bills or get sick and not be able to support them.

There may be other ways for you to get exposure to more CAE, maybe some college classes or something. Others may have more ideas on how you can get into the area without taking what sounds like a big effective pay cut when you take benefits into account.

However, there are also posters here who have the 'follow your dream' mentality, maybe their right, what would I know I'm an engineer not a philosopher or psych major.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[ChrisConley]

Follow your dream!

But get everything in writing whenever you can.

 

[mshimko]

If you're hired essentially as a subcontractor at a fixed hourly rate, the company does not pay any fringe, and probably no overhead for your work.

If you were truely what I refer to as a subcontractor, YOUR hourly rate would include burdens for YOUR fringe and overhead.

Seems to me that the new company is getting you at a very reduced rate for a few months, afterwhich they will be abe to decide if they really want you as a full time employee. In other words, if they decide they DON'T want you as a full time employee (say due to poor pereformance, or perhaps reduced workload), they simply don't issue a new subcontracting agreement.

This is a great arrangement - for the company, that is. They get your services at essentially below market rates, with zero obligation or risk on their end.

I would query WHY they won't make you full time, and at a minimum request and receive a salary increase. You could reasonable request a salary nearly equal to the company's true cost if you were full time [paying you essentially for benefits, including vacation and holidays], and the company still incures zero risk should you not perform as expected. You could even then agree to a "mid-point" salary. This, of course, requires you to make a guess (or investigate and ask others) of the typical fringe and overhead burdens used by the company.

Good luck, and don't take all the risk and sacrifices yourself - they should be shared.

 

[MadMango]

$18hr seems low to me, but it is dependent on where you live. Geographically, where is this job located, in a major city or away from one?

Whatever you decide, get everything in writing, and don't be afraid to ask for it before you make-up your mind.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[Gymmeh]

mshimko,

The owner told me that the reason for the cut was a) because they will be training me for the first 3 months
b) Too show my commitment, he stressed that a lot, I assume he got burned by someone and now is paranoid.

M^2 – I live in the Buffalo NY area… I want to get out cuz the area is dead and still dying and most companies use that as an excuses to treat people like $h!7 !!!…I could write a book about the stupid dynamics of the area…but that’s it in a nut shell. The problem is you need money to move, or get a good job offer that will foot the bill.

 

[Sid7]

Gymmeh,

In the current economic I would be very cautious to go on such a route. The USA economy is heading towards a recession or at least media says so.

In these circumstances what about the income source stability in years to come? The excel budget seems fine for now but the cost of living is rising slowly too and thats not the end? Do you think this is right time to go after the dream?

Just my doubts.
Good Luck.

Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.

 

[zdas04]

In my area (NW New Mexico) Oil & Gas roustabout truck pushers (3-6 months experience, some High School) make over $18/hour, and Pumpers (a couple of years experience in a related area) are making $25/hour. Office guys make more. New Petroleum Engineering Graduates are getting upwards of $100k/year with zero experience.

My point is that supply and demand are truly local phenomena. If you think that Buffalo is a dying economy then there are other places that may have a lot of life. You just have to decide what your priorities are and go for them.

David

 

[IRstuff]

$18/hr seems horrifically low, particularly as a contractor. A typical wrap rate is 150% to account for bennies, taxes, etc. That would put your equivalent salary at about $12/hr, which is not much. You'd be making less than many secretaries.

I don't recall what your background is like, but I think that you're being taken advantage of... Your OP states "a pay increase between $23-25/hr " which would put you at $41/hr, which is much more reasonable.

Again, mileage may vary, but we usually wind up paying about 150% the salary of a FT employee for a jobshopper.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Gymmeh]

They linerally just invited me back for another interview.

So Hopefully this is enough ammo to either get a better offer or run like he11!.

Thank you all, I will let you know what happens!!!

 

[EddyC]

Are they already using an FEA program? Or is this something that will be purchased later? What kind of training will you receive? From coworkers? Classes? Self-Study? I think you should find out some more before taking such a low salary. If I were hiring someone at such a low salary (assuming that I could stoop so low) I would really doubt that they would stay for long. And if I was a really devious fellow, I would find some way to con them into staying for a while (like promising something tangible down the road).

 

[josephv]

Sorry, maybe it's just me, but I don't understand the logic in:

"we will pay you less, because we are training you."
"we will pay you less, to see your commitment."

Your training benefits the company, so why should they pay you less for this. If they want you to see your commitment, maybe they should pay you more not less.

 

[TheTick]

$18/hr is low.

Danger sign number two is that you will be "working" into engineering and FEA. Signals that the firm does not really take engineering or FEA seriously as professional disciplines.

 

[josephv]

good point, Tick, Star for you

 

[MikeHalloran]

Ask for $40/hr.

That's less than what they'd pay a job shop for someone who can drive Inventor, never mind FEA.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Heckler]

Sounds to me you will be taken for a 3 month joy ride. I did some contracting work through an agency and easly got $35/hr with medical. I bet the agency charged $70/hr for my services.

What type of training? Is this formal Inventor training or OJT?

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.

 

[Gymmeh]

It will have OTJ training and they will have a guy set to speed up the training.

from what everyone is saying, unless I get $40-$50 an hr as a contractor, this is just another case of...like I said earlier...

"… I want to get out cuz the area is dead and still dying and most companies use that as an excuses to treat people like $h!7 !!!…"

:-( Such a bummer...