Saving Documentation 6

[ProEDesigner00]

Greetings

Finally I have landed a project! Now, I know through years of expereince how and what I was required to save as a designer/engineer in various companies I was employed at. What did they do with that documentation? (ie. hand written notes, emails, drawings on napkins ect.) Most of this at times was turned in with completion of projects. I know alot of (depending on systems used) was apart of a pdm/data management system dedicated to the preservation of the 3-d model information. Thus saved an eternal trail of this work both written and blueprinted. I have already experienced conversations in which mis communications/misinterpretaions had been put in place. I resolved these issues by what I had recorded on note paper dated in which the conversations took place. How long do I hold on to the hard cpopies of this information? I am assuming I later type it into my own company electronic system of data compilation.

Let me know your thoughts.

 

[zdas04]

Once I was preparing for a deposition and our lawyer sat with me and we went through all of my work files (including a few beer-soaked napkin sketches that were in the file). He was appalled at the amount of hard copy documentation that I had kept for so long (the project had ended 6 years previous). Every bit of it was discoverable and I couldn't destroy it once a request for discovery had been made.

At the end of that day the lawyer went back to his office and wrote a "Records Retention Policy" that went to all engineers a few weeks later over the signature of the CEO. I don't still have it, but I recall that it started with "Information that you don't still need to perform an ongoing activity is a liability, not an asset." It went on to lay out a strict timeline for records retention. There was a very short list of things that are required to be retained as long as the result of the project is in service and a much longer list of things that should be destroyed immediately on completion. For example on a DOT pipeline the x-ray reports must be kept forever, but the actual x-ray film should be destroyed at the end of the project (to prevent an adverse re-interpreation).

Our records-retention policy was based on our attorney's intrepretation of the laws and the rules of discovery. Other companies certainly came up with different lists and timelines. Were I in your shoes I'd consult a lawyer.

David

 

[solid7]

Great advice, David.

It sounds as if ProEDesigner's bosses were already savvy to the concept of which you've spoken.

It has always been policy in all the jobs that I've worked, to keep ONLY pertinent final data with a release package, and all other "stuff" was required to be put into "personal records." We actually had to develop a system, whereby we made a map of our work areas, and labeled everything. If it was related to an ongoing job, it had to be in our "inwork" file. If it was ready for check or release, it had to be in "check" or "release." But anything that was sketched, superfluous, or superseded, was to go into "personal records," where it was off limits to those who might go digging for dirt. (round file was preferred) The only reason we kept things, was for re-work purposes, (memory jogging) or laying groundwork for future projects. Even at that, it was recommended that we not keep such things for longer than 6 months.

The pertinent data, (ECN, work order, release package, etc) were all kept indefinitely. They would put that stuff in boxes, and it was stored in an old salt mine.




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[ProEDesigner00]

great advice guys.
I will consult with my lawyer.

Another opportunity came knocking tonight and I am almost ready for an employee. Oh the joys in that! We will see if this thing is serious or not.

Later. Norb.

 

[Rich2001]

Go to

http://www.nspe.org/liability/DocRetentionGuidelines0305final.pdf

. On this site is a Document Retention Guideline prepared by the NSPE/PE Professional Liability Committee.

Vita sine litteris mors est.

 

[RDK]

While I understand the need to destroy documents for liability reasons, isn’t it a sad commentary on society that we would destroy the valuable records that would help us to build the next one better or fix the current one just to avoid liability?



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Zoomzoo]

I agree with you RDK about the sad commentary, unfortunately there are lawyers everywhere these days. And often these lawyers construct problems out of thin air just to make their billing targets (that's my opinion).

In my field (geotechnical engineering), I would guess that over 90% of the text of a typical report is to ward off aggressive lawyers. If this were not the case, a typical geotechnical report would consist of nothing more than a one paragraph project summary and an attached table of numbers/values to use in design.

Officially, I have the right to destroy all my files on a specific project within a short time frame (typically 6 months or so) after the report is completed. No ifs, ands, or buts - unless the client requests otherwise in writing, and is willing to pay a storage fee.

(Read between the lines of the above paragraph to see how I handle obnoxious probing lawyers...)

Zoom

 

[solid7]

Lawyers are like labor unions - once greatly needed, now mostly just a relic of less civilized times.

We live in a society today that is trade driven. Most of the old arguments about negligence, discrimination, or unfair treatment - although those things are not completely gone - do not justify the existence of all the attorneys that exist. People are, in my opinion, of necessity, driven by simple economics today, more than any other factor. This is a function of competition in a free economic society! So while certain entities helped bring about revolutionary changes, many of them have outlived their usefulness, and have now become a burden on society. (for the most part) Lawyers are unique, because they have ensured their own survival, by making it necessary to have them, in order to protect us FROM THEM!

I would NEVER destroy useful documentation. But just as attorneys have learned to exploit and/or create loopholes, we also must be willing to do the same. In other words, ALWAYS play within the system, and ALWAYS be honest, but keep it in your mind that you don't beat street fighters with boxing gloves.

For those of us working on our own, there shouldn't be much proble keeping records, so long as you know what's visible to inquiry, and what's not. If you're running the kind of business where you fear keeping documentation, I would suggest that you have other problems... (no, that's not an accusation)

Still, it's best to consult the attorney to discuss how to keep such things. And yes, I say that grudgingly.




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[zcp]

Star for Rich2001 for reminding us of all the good info from NSPE.

ZCP

http://www.phoenix-engineer.com

 

[ProEDesigner00]

Great suggestions guys. I can see that I have to set in place my own standards as to what my company is going to have to do. I will take the advice of talking with my lawyer I am also going to consult my insurance rep. that deals with the errors and omisions coverage I have.

I appreciate all of your time.

Norb.

 

[solid7]

Best of luck to you. I hope that your venture is rewarding.




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[ProEDesigner00]

Solid7 and others

I appreciate the well wishes in the luck of this venture. Tooling is being designed as I write this and parts will be made in aproximatly 16 wks. The second project is going to take a bit. Mostly due to nondisclosure documentation and to correct what this customer has allready done to jeapordize confidentiality.

Have a great week.