SE Exam October 2023 4

[SteamedHams]

Alright everyone, how was it?

I just took the bridge exams (vertical and lateral). Both morning sessions were absolute disasters. The afternoons were glorious though.

 

[RattlinBog]

I've only been a PE for a year (Minnesota) and have basically no interest in taking the SE unless my state requires it in the future. I like a challenge, but the SE just seems like an absolute beast with a constantly-moving target, especially from state to state. Now I see the SE is going to become a computer-based 4-day, 21 total hour set of exams. At least you can pass/fail one of the four exams at a time, but that's still a huge life commitment.

Maybe I don't see the big picture, but it seems like the SE could be more consistent across the country. I've read about a lot of folks getting caught in catch-22 situations depending on state requirements. Makes it feel like a risk doing all that studying and passing all or a portion of the exams, only to have state requirements change or older tests not be accepted in other states.

Not sure what I'm ranting about. I think I'm trying to say that, from an outside (non-SE pursuing) perspective, the exam seems like a thankless endeavor, at least in states where it's not required. Maybe I've got it all wrong...

Congrats to those that passed!

 

[SteamedHams]

I've only been a PE for a year (Minnesota) and have basically no interest in taking the SE unless my state requires it in the future. I like a challenge, but the SE just seems like an absolute beast with a constantly-moving target, especially from state to state....Not sure what I'm ranting about. I think I'm trying to say that, from an outside (non-SE pursuing) perspective, the exam seems like a thankless endeavor, at least in states where it's not required. Maybe I've got it all wrong...

I think you've touched on something that a lot of people feel, but I believe that numerous states require the SE for stamping building plans unless it's a really simple building. The state I am in is one of those states. Interestingly, my state requires an SE for non-simple buildings, but it does not require an SE for bridges, no matter how complex. I am a bridge engineer, so I don't know much about the buildings side. I took the SE for a few reasons make myself more marketable in states that do require it for bridges (my neighboring state is one of them). Useful for myself and also proposals.

 

[human909]

Congratulations to those who passed and commiserations to those who didn't. Yet another thread where I have great sympathy for structural engineers in the US.

Your exams to get there sound brutal. We have none of that here in Australia. It is almost 'too' easy to get through the registration process even though they've been introducing new hurdles. The most extensive quality control of competent engineers are management/colleagues/clients not exams and ticking box registrations.

There is no sense of joy though. It was an agonizing wait for the results and the studying was hardly a walk in the park either. All I have is a sense of relief. Frodo lying on the slopes of Mt. Doom would be an apt comparison.

That is how I felt when I completed my Engineering degree. Though I wouldn't suggest that it was extremely hard, I was just a bad student not suited to the university teaching and assessment process. Thankfully my mediocre performance in my studies hasn't held me back in the real world of engineering.

 

[MikeB8993]

Thanks SteamedHams. I really appreciate the detailed breakdown. I took a closer look at my diagnostic and I was not far from passing with the ASCE 7 being my weak point. Going to take a week or two off and get back to studying to retake in April!

 

[Worlds Okayest Engineer]

Passed building lateral, passed building gravity in April so I'm done! I took the AEI class for lateral and I would highly recommend it, especially for any building engineers who are not familiar with the steel Seismic Design Manual or in-depth seismic design and detailing in general.

 

[phamENG]

Congrats to those who passed! I might one day do it, but for now...nah.

I believe that numerous states require the SE for stamping building plans unless it's a really simple building.

Ten. Of those, only 2 require you to be a structural engineer for any building. The other 8 allow for most anything less impactful than a hospital, school, or high rise building. 1 of them, last time I looked it up, requires you to get the PE first and then work under an SE before you take the exam (glad I don't live in California!). Worth noting that they are concentrated on the West coast, and then Oklahoma and Georgia for good measure.

NCSEA: SE Licensure

 

[BridgeSmith]

It was an agonizing wait for the results

When I took my PE in '05, I didn't get the results until mid-January.

 

[StrEng007]

Congrats to those who passed! I might one day do it, but for now...nah.

My same sentiments. Except, I'd be returning to it. Passed vertical, got close with lateral. Exams got pushed to the side and the previous PASS is no longer counted. The feeling was/is strange... I was able to practice the same as those around me who passed, but had nothing to show for it besides the knowledge (which counts for so much but nothing at all). I practice in an area that doesn't require SE, and is entirely governed by high wind designs. We also use A LOT of shear (wood, metal stud, concrete, and CMU) walls and very few moment frames.

 

[RattlinBog]

StrEng007, that's too bad! That's kind of what I was ranting about above--moving targets and inconsistencies from state to state. Again, I'm fairly ignorant about the requirements and process for the SE, but it just seems scary with how much can go wrong if you're not perfect and on time. God forbid you have a family emergency/circumstance that causes you to pause part of the exam for a couple years... There's probably no reason to make the exams any easier, but I feel like the requirements/standards could be more forgiving.

 

[phamENG]

StrEng007 - yeah, I'm not too far from you up the coast. Our wind speeds are a little less, but not much. And I do a house or two per year out on the beaches in NC's Outer Banks.

 

[Lomarandil]

1 of them, last time I looked it up, requires you to get the PE first and then work under an SE before you take the exam (glad I don't live in California!)

Technically, you don't need to work under an SE, just perform work that meets certain requirements and have SEs vouch for that. They can be other SEs that you've worked with or you can sign up with the SEAoC to have volunteer SEs to review some of your work.

 

[lexpatrie]

Rattlin are you in Minnesota or practicing in Minnesota? If you're social and in the twin cities area let me know.

 

[BulbTheBuilder]

I have plans to take the SE one day, probably in the next two years. Can someone shed some light on the "state-to-state" requirements? I had the impression once you pass the SE it cuts across all states. I don't get it.

Also, for those in states that doesn't require SE before stamping jobs, what will be the pros of having SEs in such state? What made you take the SE exams when PE was enough to get the job done?

 

[phamENG]

Bulb - such is the nature of state based licensing laws. Individual states write and enforce their own laws. So what suits the government (and, in a perfect world, the people) of, say, Oklahoma, doesn't necessarily match up with what suits those in Maine. So the laws are different. There are third party organizations that have attempted to standardize as much as possible (NCEES in this case, ICC in the case of building codes, etc.), but it's still up to the state to decide what they do.

As for taking the SE when not required, two reasons for me:

1) Prestige. It's no secret that it's hard and pass rates are low. If I've done it, I stand out in the crowd.

2) Marketability. If I can be licensed in more states, I stand a better chance of picking up larger clients. Also, I don't know what the future holds. What happens if my wife is offered her dream job in Illinois? Wouldn't be great if reciprocity isn't available to me.

 

[BulbTheBuilder]

Thanks for the feedback, PhamEng. Honestly, number 1 is my main motivator at the moment. Just something to boost my "ego" ...not the egotistical manner. I am still in the early stages of my career, so I don't know how leverage the marketability aspect. I believe it can help me land a project manager/engineer role with potentially higher paycheck than the average PE.

Funny enough, I heard people who are really technical and almost running numbers aren't often promoted to management roles. The reason being they lose their "experience calculator" and also gets no "mentor" other engineers. This is what about 3 people have told me so far....

 

[phamENG]

It's rare for the skills that make a great technical engineer and the the skills that make a great manager to reside in the same person. They can be learned, but you have to want it.

It's true that as you 'move up' into management you often lose the opportunities to develop and maintain your technical abilities. You have to make the choice to intentionally maintain both.

 

[RattlinBog]

lexpatrie,

I live closer to Duluth. Definitely open to meeting new people, but right now I'm working on a master's degree while working full time and have a young family. Time is scarce. I hope to have more of a life and get to know more people once I'm done with school. Are you in consulting?

My understanding is also that each state has different requirements for SEs. An SE in Wyoming may have different hoops to jump through if he or she practiced as an SE in Illinois, I believe...maybe it's not that big a deal.

 

[SWComposites]

There have been lots of discussions in the How To Improve Myself forum (and a few other forums) re engineering vs management roles.

 

[SWComposites]

re SE vs PE:

http://www.ncsea.com/resources/licensure/

https://www.sru.edu/documents/academics/online-learning/Engineer Licensing Requirements by State.pdf

 

[SE2607]

Bulb - I can offer my two cents. I've been an S.E. in California for 40 years. In California, there are about 10 P.E.s (civils) for every 1 S.E. Here, it's mandatory to have an S.E. only on schools, hospitals and buildings over 160 feet tall (the L.A. City "Rule"). While prepping for the exam, I was told it would take 600 hours of prep time to be properly prepared for the exam. I didn't log my hours, but I don't believe that number is far off. I nailed the exam, leaving each session an hour and a half early. My colleagues thought I bombed the exam. LOL.

Recently, I submitted plans to a building department for a residential remodel. When the plan checker noticed my credentials (and my low S.E. number), he commented that he had a colleague on his staff who has been an S.E. for 15 years and her number was MUCH higher than mine. He then asked if I had any recommendations to prepare for the S.E. exam. I said "sure". I told him that his time would be better spent learning to play the piano or a foreign language. That would eventually be more valuable to him.

Don't spend the time to feed your ego. If you want to be a great technician, then, by all means, go in with both feet. Unfortunately, there is a glass ceiling for most technicians (engineers, accountants, biologists, chemists, etc.). We are "forced" to move into management if we want to make more money. To do that successfully, you have to be able to get other people to do what you want them to do and enjoy doing that. I never did. There is an old adage that goes something like this: "A students work for the B students at companies owned by the C students". There is more to life than making money. Much more. We, particularly those of us in the United States, are addicted to materialism. We crave stuff we don't actually need. I found (the hard way) that meeting people from other cultures is much more rewarding than building an engineering practice.

Right now, I love what I am doing. I do my own engineering and drawings. I have found a niche in complicated, high end residential remodels which require quite a bit of creativity to come up with practical solutions. I get paid pretty well and, if I go over budget, it's not a crisis for me. If I'm concerned about secondary stresses, I can spend the time on a 3D model. If I'm not sure how things are going to fit up, I can use 3D AutoCAD. My clients (mostly contractors and a few architects) are very loyal. It's just a shame it took me so long to figure this out.

Good luck in whatever path you choose, but, please, put personal happiness at the top of your list of goals. Be a good husband/wife, a good father/mother, a good friend and a good colleague. Get out and see the world and meet people who don't look or sound like you.