second masters degree worth the money? 2

[rustin03]

Hi all,

I just finished my MS in Aero Astro at Stanford, and was recently accepted to study for a second masters degree in the EE department at USC.

The original point of getting the 2nd masters degree was to become really specialized in modern control theory, and then go off to be a professional engineer.

However, now I am having second thoughts!

The 2nd masters will cost me around $30,000 over the course of the next 2 years and I am not sure it will be worth it financially.

Will companies (big aerospace companies in particular) generally pay a higher salary for a person with 2 masters degrees as opposed to one? It would be a LOT cheaper to just audit the controls classes I'm looking to take, so if getting a second degree isn't going to pay off, I'd just as soon take the classes for no-credit and save the $30,000 in tuition.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[svanels]

Just venting, why don't you try to get some experience in the field? After 3 years you would have a clear path in which direction to go.

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[tygerdawg]

Gawd, and here I am wondering if I wasted my time getting my FIRST master's degree. Why is it that you feel it is necessary to get a 2nd in order to "go off to be a professional engineer"? To be a PE usually requires...um...some experience.

Try this: do a websearch to find jobs requiring two master's degrees or the combination of skills that you think you would have if you GOT two master's degrees. I'd like to know what you find out. Probably ZERO.

You may get introduced to the term "overqualified".

You'll be sucessful if you can adapt to the reality of the workplace and commercial world:
(1) DO what you PROMISE to do
(2) do the MUNDANE engineering tasks better than the Joe Schmucks out there who are successful through plain blind luck and get repeat business
(3) except in very narrow, highly technical niches that represent some minor percentage of total engineering work out there, the world is dominated by a bunch of Joe Schmucks.

Go get some experience, find out what it is that you REALLY don't know, make some money, and live life.

TygerDawg

 

[svanels]

Tygerdawg, when I graduated my mentors adviced me to get a masters degree, I love teaching, worked in the labs, on projects, but turned the offer down and started working with the Joe Smucks and earned their respect.

Nowadays I do not consider a masters degree anymore (maybe if I have too much spare time), still at the same company, moved horizontally and at last vertically. And still enjoy what I am doing. The pay could be better, learned a lot from others, technical stuff, line management from peers, bosses and a lot from the grunt workers.

Don't expect the red carpet when you enter in the company with no experience. They threw me right into the lions cage.

3 years ago I met with a younger engineer recently graduated + masters, ranting about a job he didn't get. It was service manager for a welknown heavy equipment dealer. His opinion: he was the perfect candidate, knew everything about forecasting, abc analysis etc.
I shook my head and he went for a second masters degree.
Met him again 2 months ago, ranting again, is working and is still no CEO. A guy like this definitely will not enter my team.

From fellow engineers I heard that maintenance is routine and boring...

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[IRstuff]

Get A Job!!

If you're still interested in pursuing a second MS later, you might get the company to pay for it.

You need to get experience before you can get the PE, the long you put that off, the longer it will be before you get there. Take the PE exam as soon as possible, while your course material is stil relatively fresh in your mind.

TTFN

 

[rustin03]

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies! Let me clarify my question a bit, since maybe I didn't phrase it as I should have.

I'm looking to go into the field of optimal/modern control. In the degree program I just got out of, I was able to take a few classes in this area, but wasn't able to do enough coursework in this area to become a real specialist at it.

The bottom line is that to be successful in this field, I'm going to need to take some more classes. I really doubt that very much of today's hot info systems theory can be picked up on the job. I'm 100% sure that I'm going to need to take more classes, and so all I'm wondering is whether I should pay the money to get the actual degree.

From what you guys have said, I guess the answer is NO I am leaning towards getting a job, and then paying a couple hundred bucks here or there to audit these classes (watch the lectures online, but take them for no-credit and skip paying $3000 a class in tuition).

Does this sound like a better plan?

Thanks!

 

[IRstuff]

Don't forget that many companies offer tuition reimbursement and since this is in furtherance of your area of expertise, it's quite fitting.

TTFN

 

[rustin03]

Hi IRstuff,

I think you're onto something... tuition assistance might be the optimal solution (bad pun). I think that if I took the classes but didn't do it for credit, part of me would feel cheated for not having anything tangible to show for all of my efforts. On the other hand, if I personally shelled out the $30K to take the classes for-credit, I would feel that I was wasting money.

And thanks for the tip on the PE exam. I looked into that, and they actually have an exam that's specifically on control, which is great. I actually didn't know anything about PE licensure before I posted this question... in my original post I was just using the term "professional engineer" casually. I will definitely look into taking the exam as you suggested.

Best

 

[EddyC]

You can also develop expertise in new areas by taking continuing education courses from the various engineering societies. Thats what I am currently doing in my particular area of interest. It tends to be more flexible that a formal masters program. Some areas of study are also not available within traditional masters program settings. You may wish to investigate further for your area of specialty.

 

[svanels]

Rustin03, imagine you take a job and are working with a special brand of control, I think that your employer can send you to trade fairs/and or vendor based training. I think you will learn more of the practical side of things, instead of the generic teoretic stuff that is given in classrooms.
Don't think that after you start working, you are out of school! Only the training is more result oriented, to make profit for the company.

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[rustin03]

Hi Steven,

That is encouraging to know about the vendor based training. Yeah, in grad school they tend to teach you how to do things from scratch on the lowest levels, but I am excited to see how they do things in industry. For instance, why write your own simulator if there are commercial tools that can do the trick? Good thought.

 

[rustin03]

Eddy,

Good tip! I was just browsing around and found a bunch of classes through ASME. That sounds like a good way to go.

 

[Slugger926]

If you are wanting more Controls expertise, Oklahoma State University is offering an online/video Masters Degree program for engineers needing more Controls background. I have been tempted to dive into it to help fill my PDH requirements.

 

[rustin03]

Slugger,

Yeah, the MSCSE at OSU looks like a very focused program. This is exactly what I'm after. Gracias.

 

[IRstuff]

I would still recommend that you figure out a way to get a job and take the coursework concurrently. There's a good reason why they call it the "school of hard-knocks."

There's a wealth of real-world phenomena that are not necessarily reflected in course-work, but someone who can blend the theoretical with the practical has true worth.

TTFN

 

[rhodie]

OSU is a good school, and I have recieve two certifications using the online/virtual format. I highly recommend the school. I've never delved into a degree program online, but I'm sure it is similar.

Several of the OSU professors profess based upon "school of hard knocks" experience, so that is an added benefit to the school.

That said, IRStuff's recommendation to get concurrent job experience is a wise one. Nothing like the real thing to learn from.

 

[HgTX]

Concurrent job experience that pays for the school is a good thing, if you can swing it. You might have to work for someplace for a while before they're willing to do that, though, and in the meantime you'd be doing not what you really want to do.

Take a look at the "continuing ed" type classes and see if they really do for you what you think the university classes would do. I've been to a lot of CEU-carrying programs that are pretty superficial, and since many of them don't include an exam, there's no way to force you to grasp the material (or for you to find out whether you really got it).

I have two master's degrees (one engineering, one not) that I got because I just felt I needed to know more. I have no regrets. Was it financially worthwhile? Nope. Was it worthwhile for quality of life? Hell yes. Have I re-encountered everything I learned in the engineering MS program out here in the "school of hard knocks"? No--there are some things that I would never have known, but that have been useful to me.

In some class I took many years ago (must have been microeconomics), they covered the true cost of getting a bachelor's, master's, and PhD. You have to add the cost of the school expenses to your lost wages while you were a student, but then you can offset it with the increased income you get for having the additional education. I'm remembering very badly, but it was something like 4-5 years to make up the cost of the bachelor's degree, 15 (!) to make up the master's, and one never does make up the financial cost of getting a PhD. It all comes down to what it is you get to do with your life with that additional education, and how much it's worth to you to be able to do that.

Hg

 

[rustin03]

I found this kind of funny in light of the above discussion...

As you may have heard, the pres picked the new NASA Administrator today, and this guy has FIVE masters degrees in addition to his PhD in Aero: physics, electrical engineering, aerospace engineering, civil engineering and business administration. That's just crazy.

 

[svanels]

Sounds like he is over 50 years and have loooong CV, lots of experience, and is not recent graduated.

(Don't know the guy)

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[rustin03]

Here's Dr. Griffin's bio if anyone's interested...

http://academy.gsfc.nasa.gov/1998/html/michael_griffin.html

Personally, I don't think that NASA administrator is an ideal post. You have to take all the heat when things go wrong, and you also don't have much political pull with Congress in comparison to the various NASA centers. This can make it pretty hard to maintain funding for the programs you want to keep. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how Griffin does.