Securing SolidWorks Files 5

[Johnson27]

After I release a design to manufacturing my design goes to our CNC programmers. Since they use CAMWorks they have read/write permissions to the released design. In doing their work they make several changes to the files that make it very difficult to revise the design.

How do others handle this situation?

My thought is that the CNC programmer should only have read permissions to released designs. But since their program is written on top of SolidWorks I'm not sure this will work for them.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[TheTick]

Send them a different file. Create a "process part" that just has your part used as a base feature using "Insert --> Part". Better still, just send them a parasolid.

 

[Theophilus]

I do a parasolid (.x_t) as well.

One thing that works the best for me is a complete understanding of the manufacturing process I'm sending my parts into. That way, any changes made downstream need to be justified by the manufacturer--particularly for building expensive injection mold tools, dies, etc. So I try to make sure the design of my parts won't tempt my vendor to make any changes and that works the best for me--apart from sending in parasolid format.



Jeff Mowry

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

Reason trumps all. And awe trumps reason.

 

[meintsi]

Why would any other department have "write" permissions in the first place.

Our manufacturing department can copy the parts from the design server and then they save them to their own server.
The they can do whatever they need to.

Afetr a revision change, the ECO process dictates they copy the new version of the part so they can determine what the change requires from their side. (If any.)

Remember...
[navy]"If you don't use your head,[/navy]
[navy]your going to have to use your feet."[/navy]

 

[ewh]

I agree with meintsi. If a part is released, it should not be able to be revised. This is across the board, not just for manufacturing. If a change needs to be made, use a revision process. No one should have write privledges to a release directory except document and data control.

 

[pdybeck]

This is the downside of CAM programs that are this integrated with SolidWorks. My company looked at CAM packages and decided not to use something like this because of the very reasons you are describing. A standalone system that reads in geometry and creates its own CAM model used to generate G code. Our manufacturing department is responsible for that CAM model. If the SolidWorks model gets revised, they reload the geometry and modify their CAM model file, then output modified code. The systems then are separated, as we need them to be.

Pete

 

[ctopher]

We used PDMWorks and gave the shop read-only permissions. They can not change and save back to the PDMWorks vault.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

 

[Heckler]

Chris, but like pdybeck stated it's the downside to CAM programs that are integrated into SWx. Unless, my understanding of how CAMWorks stores the G-Code within the part file so that would mean they need write permissions.

We use MasterCAM X which reads in native files from all major MCAD programs thus eliminating the need to create a secondary file format. As a side note a lot of FEA programs are doing it this way now. ANSYS will read in native files. Does anyone know why the Kernal devolopers are opening up a little with this issue?

Chris - you keep it up with these snappy replys we will get you over a hundo by weeks end!

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

 

[ctopher]

Funny Heckler.
CAMWorks stores the code along with the part file when saved. I can't remember exactly the setup. But, within CAMworks, you can export the code. When a designer or engineer changes the part, they can send it to the shop, then the shop opens it and imports back the code. The shop can save their codes in their own folder.
The code will recognize the parts features, but if changed I think it will prompt you. Then you add code to additional features as needed.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

 

[StefanHamminga]

Something I would love to see included in a future release of SW is a form of DRM (Digital Rights Management), to be able to control who does what with your files.
For instance: you give the CNC shop permission to include their cam data, but you deny permission to model parameters... Like the current drm music files, you have to request permission from the publisher.

Stefan Hamminga
EngIT Solutions
CSWP/Mechanical designer/AI student

 

[pdybeck]

Programs like CAMWorks store the CAM model information within the SolidWorks model. The CAM model is NOT the output (G-Code). All CAM packages function like this, I think... The CAM model is where info is stored about creating toolpaths. When needed, the toolpaths are turned into output in the form of G-Code. We also use MasterCam X here, and I think our guys like it very much.

Pete Yodis

 

[Johnson27]

I really like StefanHamminga idea of DRM. That would be the ideal solutions. CNC wants to be able to store Tooling, Feeds and Speed Information, and Toolpath information within the SolidWorks model. By doing this they do not have to reapply the machining knowledge each time a revision is released.

As a business we are trying to shorten the pre-manufacturing time frame by working on projects concurrently. We model the product in SolidWorks, release the models to CNC, work on the drawings, release the drawings to the shop, and then machine the parts. But sometimes we discover a problem with the model while we are creating the drawing and revise the model. If CNC is storing their machining knowledge in the SolidWorks part file their effort to revise the part is minimualized. If they are working with a Parasolid or read-only SolidWorks file they have to recreate the machining knowledge. There are definately pros and cons to both methods.

But the question still is; what is the most cost effective way to operate while providing for the needs and wants of both Engineering and CNC.

 

[ewh]

Johnson27's procedure seems the best mentioned here so far. Create the tooling info BEFORE the file is released.

Regardless of the CAD system used or the excuses given, once a part file is released it should NOT be changed without a revision documenting the changes. This was true of board drawings and it is just as true with CAD files. There should be an accountability trail documenting any and all changes. If the CAM programmers have to change something to a released file, up rev the file. To remain competitive, you have to be able to account for any and every change in processes and data to ensure your customers that they are receiving what they expect. The large aircraft manufacturers are now seeking sub-contractors with NADCAP certification, and letting data be changed without documentation will doom that certification.

 

[J-C]

Not sure about Cam/Works' integration, but what about inserting the read-only controlled model into an new assembly or part file that is under the control of your CNC guys? They can give it a name, store it in PDM/works if they wish, and still have associativity back to the original part file.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[pdybeck]

Jason,

Not sure if CAMWorks functions within assembly files, that might be the dealmaker/breaker in your scenario.

Pete

 

[ctopher]

Giving the shop read-only in PDMW worked well for us. They open the part file, create the code, export it to their folder. Then import the code each time the part changes. Saved a lot of time.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-27-06)

 

[bigbuck]

I understand the need for a paper trail when working in a production environment, a large organization, or making parts for equipment that are for very high end things, say aerospace. But for the average plain Jane small 10 man shop cranking out small fixtures or dies or doing mold repair etc etc it is inefficient and usually unacceptable to have a paper trail for each individual detail of a "thing". The beauty of CAMWorks is that I decide I need to move a counter bore on a part the path usually update by itself (with notification of course) and all I need to do is repost. This is especially cool on a part that has a bunch of contours that I spent the last 1/2 hour making path for. This is where I believe a CA package that runs on top of SW really shines.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Johnson27]

Thank you everyone for their suggestions.

I am going to propose a change in the file/folder permissions for the CNC department so Engineering can maintain control of the designs.

I will then propose the following solutions to CNC for working with the models;

1. Import the models as a Parasolid each time a model is revised.
2. Bring all SolidWorks part model into assemblies or bring them in as derived parts, then save the new file in their own directories.

Are there any other valid options?

 

[J-C]

Looking at their website, it mentions part and assembly files. Not sure if it works equally in both or uses them for different things.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[Johnson27]

bigbuck, your exactly right. The SolidWorks/CAMWorks solution works well for smaller operations were there are very few people designing and programming parts, sometimes even the same person. It is very efficient to move a hole, change a profile and repost the machine code.

But as an organization grows, the need for greater control become necessary. I am trying to come up with a solution that satisfies the engineering department's need to control the design while taking advantage of the ability to store the machining knowing generated by CAMWorks in the SolidWorks files. Thus, making the organization more efficient.