Securing the National Grid(s) 2

[GrandpaDave]

I did a search on the subject of this new thread
and did not see any forums on this site... maybe
there is a thread somewhere. Anyway I'm putting
this new thread on top of climate change thread here
under "Where is Engineering Going In The Next 5 Years
Forum".

Are there any thoughts on the subject? Is it a
concern or not? The federal government (US government)
can not seem to move on this issue, in IMHO it is.

I came across the following site:

http://www.securethegrid.org/

G-pa Dave
PS: Hearing the audio book "One Second After" woke me up.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Fifty years ago, the grid owners were possessive enough, or pro-active enough, to send tree trimming crews around twice a year to keep persistent flora under control. Recently, they have come to expect Federal help for everything, including post-storm repairs, so they do zero pre-storm prevention.

According to what apparently passes for modern business logic, prevention of outages is a needless expense if someone else is going to pay for repairs.

We apparently can't stop our guvvamint from purchasing such dependency.

We also can't stop our guvvamint from engaging in self-delusion, specifically at least the fantasy that unemployment is not widespread.

Therein lies the core of one potential solution...

I.e., pay people to establish residency near essential grid components.

... No, belay that; pay them to live near and guard _all_ of the grid. We certainly have a sufficient number of people available to do that effectively.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[GrandpaDave]

Can an EMP attack shut down the national grid here in America?
I have been hearing reports that our public utilities electrical grids
and all things with microprocessors and such can not survive such an attack.
America over a matters of days would fall back into the early 19th century.
And the current population of 310 million would drop to about 30 million
in a few short years... Military equipment is hardened for such events.
So join the military to survive... Not.

G-pa

 

[MikeHalloran]

I don't think _one_ EMP event could shut down the entire grid.

I do think one worm could cause a lot of trouble, and more so as the 'smart grid' fad spreads.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Comcokid]

It doesn't take a EMP to shut the grid down. A "Carrington Event" occuring in our modern era will do it. Just in the past week, a solar flare of this potential was emitted by the sun but missed earth.

 

[GrandpaDave]

H.R.2417 - Secure High-voltage Infrastructure for Electricity from Lethal Damage Act (aka Shield Act)
This act was introduced last June and is sitting there still. Do you feel this is a waste of taxpayers
money or should the bill move forward?

 

[2dye4]

I don't think they can do much at this point. There are two threats in my mind.

Attach on infrastructure in remote areas with virtually no prospect of even being caught.

Cyber attack on networked critical control systems.


For the first one not much could be done even with a lot of money. Ballistic shielding of substations reduces
one route but may well cause other issues with equipment cooling.

For the cyber part i think strong consideration should be given every time some engineer wants to throw his
equipment on the network for convenience as to whether it is really necessary and design primarily for monitoring
with limited control abilities from the network.

 

[rconnor]

Aging (and poorly maintained) infrastructure is a larger concern than sabotage. Although, nothing gets you funding faster in American than using the word “terrorism”…and nothing gets you funding slower in America than using the words “preventative maintenance”.

 

[cranky108]

So why are we potting so many micro-processor devices to protect our power grid? The electromechinical devices, some of which lasted 75 years, did a good job and did not have any EMP problems.

Solar panels are another example of devices that would not survive an EMP.

Most of the things that are a concern are NEW stuff, that the goverment is asking for.

And if your smart meter quits working, is that a problem?

Yes we can harden substations, at a price. The president did say your electricty prices will necessarly rise.
He did not say it was exclusivley from out lawing coal generation.

 

[GrandpaDave]

We all have opinions with pros and cons. But when an EMP event actually occurs,
we'll all be Monday morning quarterbacks. In particular the news media will go
ape-s**t. But not to worry, no one will be able to communicate so there’s no
problem except trying to survive.

If you have not read “One Second After”, read that book and come back here.

G-pa

 

[cranky108]

Why can't our securty guards carry guns? Because they might hurt somebody.

 

[GrandpaDave]

Cranky... It's hard to shoot an EMP device at high altitude with a hand gun!
Devices are sent from North Korea or Iran with love... Of course Russia and
China can send their love too. Of course we could call MI5 for their help
but alas they would have their own problems in the UK!

 

[urgross]

Sounds very much like something that the erstwhile mayor of the moon, Newt, would conjure up after watching The Matrix.

Was this intended as a cartoon?

 

[cranky108]

Are you saying that EMP is the only issue we need to worry about? If so we only need one solution.

If instead, we have several issues, then maybe we need several solutions. So I ask again: Why can't our securty guards carry guns? Because they might hurt somebody.

EMP is more of a problem to our society than just the electric grid. After all what good is an electric grid if only a few customers can use the energy.
Just look at your house and tell me what would survive an EMP event?

No to TV, Radio, New washing machines and dryers, no swerly light bulbs, no LED's, no electric cars, no car newer than about 1985, no microwave, ...

So again I ask what customers would be prepared to take energy.

And what an advantage for the Chiniese, they can sell us all this new stuff, after the event.

 

[ewh]

Better store a spare laptop in a metal trash can! ;-)

“Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.”
-Dalai Lama XIV

 

[GrandpaDave]

Cranky... No it's not the only one. But, IMO, it's the only one
that will take us back to the early 19th century overnight.

 

[GrandpaDave]

Comcokid... You got me there. If we had another solar storm like that of 1859,
that would be worse than a specific EMP attack on the US. It would shut down the world.
Would a Shield Act harden us for that type of event?

 

[cranky108]

Well lets explore what will be injored by an EMP.

Wire, No, Insulators, they may flash, but should be OK (if not the polymer stuff), Transformers, maybe if the arrestors don't work. Arrestors, likely to fail, unless they are over sized.
Generators, well the leads are normally in a metalic duct, so maybe not. Electric meters, solid-state, so likely. protective relays, the solid-state maybe.
Circuit breakers, depending on the type.

On the other hand, what consumer goods will survive? Edison bulbs, electric heaters, vacuum tubes, motors maybe.

Don't point at the utilities, if the customers have only been buying the cheep electronics.

But you could also point at many other industries with the same issues, like airlines, car manufacturers, the internet, movie theaters, radio stations, consumer goods, etc.
So put your own house in order before you become criticle of others.

 

[GrandpaDave]

Cranky... No concerns at all. Cool. Those pesky consumers have been buying
cheep electronics. They should have bought military hardened electronics for an
extra couple of bucks. If you have an old car without microprocessors and real
windows that have good old fashion mechanical cranks you might get around for
awhile. Hopefully you can find an old fashion mechanical hand pump to fill up
your car.

Gee... I just don't trust anything electrical. I must be Chicken Little or
am I that Peter in Peter and the Wolf.

 

[cranky108]

The problem seems to be that the media wants to use the power industry as a whipping boy. The issue isen't that there is no problems, it is that we want to point fingers.

The other issue is the gee wiz factor of society ignores the issues of sustainability, and situational awareness. These are things we as engineers should be looking at.
The fact is low cost, and sparkling lights is more important to many people.

For years electric utilities were regulated as to what they can and can't install for the customer benifit. Suddenly people have forgotten those regulators are in charge, and they don't care about EMP, or fanitics.

Example: how many people that you know have a generator? How many have spare parts for it? How many have more than a few days worth of fuel?
FEMA recommends each of us have at least three days of food and water.

Most utilities do have a supply of fuel (unless it is wind, solar, or gas), to be able to ride past fuel disruptions. Most utilities are part of a grid so they can share resources (not everyone thinks they can use it for free). And most utilities have power production in reserve.

So how are companies in your line of business prepared for business disruptions?