SEISMIC EPOXY: Simpson or Hilti?

[randomizer]

Does anyone have any information on a comparison of Hilti HIT RE 500 SD epoxy versus Simpson SET-XP epoxy?

I know that the Hilti SD is more expensive, but something tells me that it is worth. Maybe I just have more respect for Hilti's marketing tactics versus Simpson's.

Any thoughts?

 

[mmillerpe]

I would check the icc-es report on both products. I am not sure if the simpson product has been approved for seismic applications.

 

[asixth]

I had a ramset guy in the office the other day talking about testing for seismic applications. Exactly how does one test and certify that there produce is compliant for seismic applications?

 

[randomizer]

Both products are certified by the ICC for cracked concrete seismic applications. Both have ICC information for calculating capacities using ACI 318-08, Appendix D.

My question is what are the intangibles? Issues with curing, placement, etc, etc.. things that make one epoxy have less quality in the field than the other.

OR has someone found that one gives consistently lower values?

Between the two products, there must be some differences: superiorities and inferiorities.

 

[dik]

I spec Hilti... but that is not to say that Simpson doesn't make a suitable product.

I used them before the 'Big Dig' and as a consequence of that, reviewed their (Hilti) material and found it suitable. Matter of doing a little research and coming to your own conclusion.

Dik

 

[mmillerpe]

I would think that the majority of field issues arise from installation issues and not product issues, and no matter what product you spec the same people will be installing the product.

I think that both Hilti and Simpson products are good products. I think that Hilti has been on the forfront of product development, and have marketed themselves better in the chemical adhesive market. A number of years ago I would have said outright that Hilti has a better product, but these days I think that the products from other companies are on par with Hilti, even so, when given the choice I still spec the Hilti products on commercial projects due to past performance and reputation.

On residential products however, I generally spec the Simpson products due to their availabiliy through local lumber yards and home centers.

No matter what product gets specified, I usually get asked if a Powers product can be used.

 

[hokie66]

When you talk about adhesives and suppliers, the supplier does not necessarily manufacture the adhesive. The Powers adhesive which failed in the BigDig was manufactured by someone else, I think Sika. I don't know if Simpson is an adhesive manufacturer, but Hilti is.

 

[dik]

in Sika's defense... I understand they supplied what was asked of them. They were not given a loading criteria... I use a lot of Sika products, too...

Dik

 

[hokie66]

dik,
I wasn't saying that Sika did anything wrong. Powers was the vendor who supplied the adhesive which failed, and bore the brunt of the product liability. As in most of these things, however, I think Sika had to contribute as well.

 

[paddingtongreen]

We used Hilti almost exclusively on nuclear power plants, perhaps because we, and the construction companies had a good experience record with them, going in. Further, I think they did more testing before we asked for it for the extensive documentation for nuclear plants.

Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

 

[dik]

hokie... didn't think so... just clearing up any confusion.
sorry, criricism was not intended...

Dik

 

[SteveGregory]

Hilti just came out with HIT HY 150 Max SD and a 30 page ICC report.

 

[connectegr]

We spec Hilti for everything. The only complaint I hear is the price. Their software and tech support is the best. And most of the field installers prefer them.

http://www.FerrellEngineering.com

 

[kchis]

Simpson SET-XP is approved for use in cracked concrete in accordance with the 2006 IBC. Hilti RE 500-SD is up to date with their approvals through the 2009 IBC.

SET-XP is approved for rod sizes 1/2"-1"
RE 500-SD is approved for rod sizes 3/8"- 1-1/4"

SET-XP is more difficult to dispense at cooler temperatures

SET-XP is listed as containing small traces of carcinogens in their MSDS report

Also, if you compare the required cleaning procedures for the two products, you'll see that the Simpson method takes approximately twice as long as the Hilti method.

The overall message is that while Hilti may have a higher price tag in some cases, the bottom line is about labor cost, and that is where Hilti makes up ground by having a superior product

 

[sandman21]

You can also thank Hilti for Appendix D.

I spec Hilti one week then Simpson the next. Nobody has complained about time or price.

 

[RacingAZ]

randomizer, just curious as to what kind of marketing tactics are you talking about that you don't like about Simpson?

My experience with them has been all good. They are one of the first (at least when I'm just starting my engineering career) to really provide engineer-friendly technical catalogs that started with their connectors until they branched out to chemical adhesives. You can call their 800 number and actually speak to an engineer, not a sales guy. Their engineers will go out of their way to give you non-published data if you asked. They also started offering seminars for PDH's with hot breakfast for free. How many other vendors do that?

They are actually one of the few vendors that make my job a lot easier. I may sound like one but I'm not a fan boy and actually let the contractor decide most of the time what's to be used on my jobs.

I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm really just curious when you implied that you don't like their marketing tactics. Thanks!