Selling your "work"? 7

[Senselessticker]

I found this article intriguing. It seems to me that the lesson plans should be proprietary to the particular school system of which a teacher in employed.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/06/28/ebay.for.teachers.ap/index.html

I have countless electrical details, calculation templates, report templates, presentations, and a slew of other time saving “tools” which I use on a daily basis as part of my job. Considering I have created these on company time, using company software, on a company PC…..does it not “belong” to the company? I imagine that it does. If I were to start “selling”, say CAD files of electrical details….I imagine I’d get fired…and probably into legal trouble.

However, in the article above (assuming a public school system)….People are profiting from work they have created most likely on government time, using government equipment, for use within a government institution. Does anyone else see an ethics issue here….or perhaps a legal issue?

 

[ewh]

I tend to agree. To force another teacher to pay for something created on the taxpayers $ just seems wrong. A free exchange though seems that it would be of benefit to the public at large.

 

[aardvarkdw]

Most teachers (I emphasise MOST) spend their own after hours time and equiptment to produce lessons and lesson plans. Many elementary school teachers use their own money and resources to provide materials to use in the classroom because the school can not or will not reimburse them for all of their expenses. They may get some of it back but the budgets for unapporved materials are meager at best. I know many teachers that go out of their way to produce fun and entertaining lessons that will get the information across to the students and I am aware of the personal sacrifice this can entail. Also it can be very dificult to come up with this material entirely on your own. I think that this is a wonderful way to deceminate information to teachers that would otherwise be forced to teach directly out of the approved text and would find 75% of their students asleep within the first 10 minutes. If they make a little money in the deal all the better. I don't see as there would be any legal issues as teachers are not required to sign NDA's in regard to their curriculum and besides it's their job to pass this information on to our kids, why not let them pass it on to thier collegues as well.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

But aardvarkdw, they are making money off *other teachers*, so I don't really see the benefit. Wouldn't it be better for the teachers to share lesson plans/ideas/materials so that they could offer the same lessons without having to spend so much of their own time and money developing them?

 

[aardvarkdw]

True, but if you spent the time to create something wouldn't you like to see some compensation for your efforts? According to the article they are only charging what they think is the value of their work, something that anyone else could reproduce on their own given enough time and ingenuity, not gouging their collegues for something they cannot do their jobs without. This is no different than if I wrote a self-help book on the art of nosehair topiary, I could fully expect to recieve monetary compensation for copies of my book distributed.

 

[Senselessticker]

It also seems using outside materials would also require some kind of approval/checking from a supervisor before such material can be used for instructional purposes. Or...do teachers actually have free reign for the materical which is introduced to a classroom? I REALLY hope this is not the case!

Aside from the ethics issue of selling/buying. This seems like a serious quality problem.

 

[aardvarkdw]

In many instances they do have free reign. Take the example of the Colorado high school geography teacher Jay Bennish not too long ago. Teachers are required to submit a sylabus of their intended areas of study but are not required to submit a detail summary of ever lesson. They have alot of latitude in what is discussed in the classroom.

 

[IRstuff]

Speaking of teaching, that probably should be "free rein":

http://onelook.com/?w=free+rein&ls=a

TTFN

 

[aardvarkdw]

Plese exuse mi mispeling... I am a produkt of publik skool.

 

[TheTick]

I usually get annoyed with people who can't read an entire article. Now people can't even read the first paragraph!

For all those teachers who take work home at night,...

Copyright law 101: You wrote it, you own it (unless you sign your rights away).

 

[stevenal]

We can read.
Teachers and engineers are both exempt so our off time is not strictly our own. If I produce something after hours primarily for my work, it belongs to my employer; especially if employer resources are used. "take" sounds like something went along, like school district owned textbooks or incomplete plans begun during working hours, or a district owned laptop. If I write it under these conditions, I don't own it; any right signed away every time I endorse a paycheck.

 

[TheTick]

If I produce something after hours primarily for my work, it belongs to my employer

If this were true, why do employers go to such great lengths to clarify ownership of ideas in engineers' employment contracts?

I say we close this loophole. Teachers make too much money for far too little effort.

 

[stevenal]

I have no contract, so I can't speak of engineer's employment contracts. Do they really allow this?
Certainly if the teacher's contract covers this area, it would rule. I have a hard time imagining such a clause with board members under public scrutiny seeking re-election.

I detect sarcasm. I'm sure we can all find the apparent justification for un-ethical behavior if we look. Still not ethical.

 

[aardvarkdw]

So essentially what you are saying is that if I am at work and I suddenly get an inspiration about how to build something (completely unrelated to work, but inspired by something I was doing at work), and I go home and using a pen (that I happened to leave in my pocket while at work) I draw up a product that could make me a millionare, you would say that because I concieved of it on my employer's time and drew it using one of their "tools" it belongs to them?

Also teachers can get paid over-time for time spent over the number of hours they are required to be at work each day. There is a cap on this amount, and it does not apply to work done at home. As far as a taecher's time not strictly being their own, I have never heard of a teacher being required to come into school after normal hours and not being paid for it. As an exempt engineer though you can be required to be on call or work extra hours to complete an assigned task, with no garauntee of extra compensation.

 

[Senselessticker]

aardvarkdw: The difference is that things such as lesson plans are specifically for "work". Teachers create such plans for "work", not for personal use. Teachers are PAID to create such plans for "work". It is part of their job desciption.

It easy to turn a head away from this issue because its for a classroom, children, etc...But its the "principle" here... (no pun intended!) that someone is already getting paid to produce a document (by tax payer money), then sells the document for additional personal profit. It seems this should be illegal, as a means to protect the tax payers. Once the document has been produced, it should become the property of the school system(s). The school system could then use/distribute such a document at will.

 

[aardvarkdw]

My concern is the fact that the teachers in question here are going above and beyond the nessesary work criteria. Every teacher is required to spend a period of time at the school building each day working to prepare those lessons. Any time spent outside of those working hours is their own. A teacher is not required by the school or, for that matter the community, to create entertaining and engageing lessons. If they are using their own time to produce a lesson that will keep my kid in class and actually TEACH them something, I hav absolutely no problem with them protecting their ideas by asking for a modest payment in return for their use.

The teachers are NOT getting paid to produce interesting lessons that might actually teach something. Your tax dollars are paying to have someone, anyone, with a teaching degree, sit and read out of a textbook thus providing the information required to pass an exam on said information. If the students don't retain the information that is not their problem. Granted a teacher that teaches like that will most likly not stay at that school very long but in an area where teachers are in short supply schools will hire any warm body that comes through the door.

 

[stevenal]

aardvarkdw

Replace that pen with a new one that's full of ink, and I'd call it good.

Teachers are exempt from OT regs in my state. I believe this may be of federal origin. Colective bargaining agreements can probably override this.

 

[aardvarkdw]

Federal regulations I agree but, at least where I live they can be compensated for, I believe (don't know for certain), 40 hours of over time a year. It must be documented and submitted to the district.

Many teachers get paid extra for coaching sports, why don't the teachers that don't coach get extra money for taking the time to be a better teacher?

 

[TheTick]

Is it unethical? What ethic or code are the teachers violating?

Some think there is a rule being broken. Which rule? There are a lot of assumptions about what the rules might be or oughta be. No one seems to know what the rules are for teachers.

The mere fact that teachers are robbed of their overtime like engineers are does not automatically mean they must surrender what they create on their own time.

 

[GregLocock]

"So essentially what you are saying is that if I am at work and I suddenly get an inspiration about how to build something (completely unrelated to work, but inspired by something I was doing at work), and I go home and using a pen (that I happened to leave in my pocket while at work) I draw up a product that could make me a millionare, you would say that because I concieved of it on my employer's time and drew it using one of their "tools" it belongs to them?"

That is in fact the standard contractual position for engineers in Australia. Even if they don't use the employer's pen. Even if they had the idea in the middle of the night.

I usually cross it out.

Cheers

Greg Locock

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