Selling your "work"? 7

[Senselessticker]

I found this article intriguing. It seems to me that the lesson plans should be proprietary to the particular school system of which a teacher in employed.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/06/28/ebay.for.teachers.ap/index.html

I have countless electrical details, calculation templates, report templates, presentations, and a slew of other time saving “tools” which I use on a daily basis as part of my job. Considering I have created these on company time, using company software, on a company PC…..does it not “belong” to the company? I imagine that it does. If I were to start “selling”, say CAD files of electrical details….I imagine I’d get fired…and probably into legal trouble.

However, in the article above (assuming a public school system)….People are profiting from work they have created most likely on government time, using government equipment, for use within a government institution. Does anyone else see an ethics issue here….or perhaps a legal issue?

 

[stevenal]

Which rule? The one that prohibits theft. See the OP. Although he avoided the word, he is speaking of theft. Prohibited by most policies as well as law. and a poor example for the young ens.

 

[MedicineEng]

Well, what about the books that are written by teachers and sold (and usually quite expensive)? Should we burn those too? Poor management gurus, they are going to starve...
Before you defend that, be sure that you sell all your McGraw-Hill or Prentice-Hall stocks...
Everybody can come with different points of view, but if the works is done outside normal working hours and not using bosses'resources, why should they have any right to it? With exemption or not exemption.

 

[TheTick]

You are sure, and yet you do not quote a single policy, law, or contract clause.

 

[GregLocock]

Well, MedicineEng, I'll repeat. I've worked for two different engineering compaies in Australia and both laid first claim to ANY patentable idea I came up with whilst I worked for them, in whatever field, whatever time of day I invented it.

I'm fairly sure that the same applied in the UK but I can't remember chapter and verse.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[MedicineEng]

Ok, but you gave up your intellectual property rights upfront. It was clearly stated in your contract. The issue is, is this a market rule or is it a rule that these 2 companies created and you were obliged to accept?
In my country this is called (in a free translation) a "lionine contract" (from lion) meaning that you are signing a contract that one of the parties (you) has much more responsibilities than it would be reasonable in a normal contract work and these clauses can be revoked.
What I understood is if there is no such clause in the contract. Even with exemption, is the work developed in the weekend or outside working time using each own means belonging to the company or not? In my point of view, it belongs to the person, not the company.

 

[GregLocock]

Hard to say since I've only negotiated those two contracts!

Mind you, both times I crossed it out.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[aardvarkdw]

The point is that teachers do NOT sign those type of contracts or have those clauses in their contracts. As a teacher you would be well within your rights to write a book on how to teach and by selling it make a profit on royalties. The school district would not expect any portion of the proceeds. There is no difference here except that it is on a smaller less formal scale.

You can't compare the contracts and obligations you might be under in an engineering position to this situation. For instance if a manager (salary) at a fast food resturaunt created a new way to cook things faster and better and chose to patent their idea, just because they are under contract to that business they are not obligated to turn over the rights to that patent. They could patent it and sell it back to the company or even start their own resturaunt. In an engineering disipline they would almost certainly be obligated to turn it over to the company. It all depends on what is written in the contract.

 

[Senselessticker]

aardvarkdw, This difference is that writing books is not a job requirement for teachers. Creating lesson plans is done "on the clock" and is a requirement of the job. I'm very suprised others here do not see the conflict. He/she is already getting paid to accomplish the task (with tax payer money).

 

[StressGuy]

Senselessticker,

I don't think there is a clear consensus on your assertion about lesson plans. There is certainly the view that the textbook is the lesson plan already and what a teacher does to expand on that is their own work.

Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

"All the world is a Spring"

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

 

[kchayfie]

If the lesson plans are produced "on the clock" and on the taxpayers dime, why is it that so many teachers are putting in unpaid overtime to write them?

 

[TheTick]

Perhaps we should simply insist that teachers create mediocre lessons in allotted time.

 

[BJC]

How many of the engineering books that we all use are authored by college professors?
Do the professors write them all at home, after hours?
I am certain that none of them ever used a graduate student in writing their book, that would be unethical, right?

 

[Quantum50]

Nope! Graduate students are slave labor and have no rights. It's a law of nature.

 

[Ashereng]

Graduate students are often paid by the supervising professor, in addition to the grants and awards they may also receive, much like most engineers are paid by their employer.

Therefor, the product of the graduate student is the property of the professor.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[BJC]

Ashereng
If the product of the graduate students belong to the professor it follows then the the product of the professor belongs to the university. I know patents that result from reasearch grant belong to universitys but book royalties go to the author.

 

[TheTick]

If the product of the graduate students belong to the professor it follows then the the product of the professor belongs to the university.

You're missing an important step: you assume the contract for the professor is the same as that for the grad student. A valid assumption, if you're not interested in actually getting all the facts.

 

[IRstuff]

http://www.nea.org/neatoday/0010/rights.html

Bottom line: unless explicitly stipulated in a contract, common law and precedence would place ownership of the copyright to syllabi, lecture notes, etc. with the school.

TTFN

 

[wes616]

How many of the engineering books that we all use are authored by college professors?

My dad, a college professor, as part of his contract with the university, must give up a percentage of any profits he recieves from intellectual properties. I'm not sure what that percentage is... but I do remember from when I was a kid, that it was an important point when he was negotiating for tenure.

Wes C.
------------------------------
When they broke open molecules, they found they were only stuffed with atoms. But when they broke open atoms, they found them stuffed with explosions...

 

[TDAA]

"If the lesson plans are produced "on the clock" and on the taxpayers dime, why is it that so many teachers are putting in unpaid overtime to write them?"

The same could be said about engineering reports.