Shell TAT / TAMAP CERTIFICATE APPLICATION 2

[mmuurraatt]

Dear All,

Does anyone have the information on Shell Global Solutions TAT certification application processes? Firstly, i need the information on the application.

Thanks,

 

[LittleInch]

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=363473

Also search TAT in eng-tips for more data

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[mmuurraatt]

Thank you i did it and i think we have only limited chance to have detailed information.

Does anyone have the source to have forecast prices per type? or it is totally related to the valve design complexity , etc.

Thanx.

 

[LittleInch]

I think you'll info that info is commercially confidential

It is said that shell projects are often 30% more in material costs than any other....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[europipe]

L.I. ,is that favourable?, i.e. less labour costs?

 

[mmuurraatt]

Thank you LittleInch. This is realy appreciated information because i just needed to foreseen cost.

 

[LittleInch]

No and it's just what is said. Shell and other large companies which demand their own approval systems and specifications get charged a premium for essentially the same stuff.

when you realize what the hoops are to get your valve TAT approved so that someone in Shell can buy it, someone has to pay.

The cert last 5 years and is for a particular MESC number, hence a lot of tests for the same valve to match different MESC numbers - read the referenced post from a shell valve engineer....

All good when you're building a lot of plants and can afford it, but pretty soon you're down to 2 or 3 vendors who can afford to keep it up or get them certified in the first place then they gradually ramp the costs up protected by the fact no one can just come in and undercut them without spending thousands of dollars and no guaranteed sales.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Danlap]

Shell have thousands of MESC number. to cover all ranges of application. This is basically part of Piping class selection matrix.
Having qualified for TAT of particular MESC, does not necessarily mean that the manufacturer will be reach any quotation and not interchangeable for other MESC. It is depending on so many factor and to be bought via Shell approved supplier.
For price and TAT possibility, you can reach Shell Global Solutions in Rijswijk, Netherlands.

Indeed as LittleInch advise, after several TAT times xyz EUR (with possibility of failing TAT and ones should re-do that again), at the end of the day those expenses should be redeemed financial-wise by means of continuous Purchase Order.

Unless your quality is almost perfect and consistent throughout the years; price can compete Shell main supplier regardless the quality; fast track faster than 16 weeks delivery time throughout the world; I would recommend contact Shell Global.
Otherwise aim for more niche product aside from commodity valves.

Kind regards,

https://nosuchvalve.com

All valves will last for years, except the ones that were poorly manufactured; are still wrongly operated and or were wrongly selected

http://www.eng-tips.com/faqs.cfm?&rat1=2&fid=376

 

[mmuurraatt]

But Shell ain't reply on our queries regarding MESC 77/300 TAT certification. Is there any agency list or direct contact information to start the process?

 

[Danlap]

What are you trying to sell here (to Shell or to any other company that have similar design validation)? Valves or just TAT certificate to complement your product to other companies (sales pitch).
If the second one you're aiming, suggest to forget it since it has some kind of disclosure agreement and Shell aware of such action in some extend.

I am working for the company mention, however my explanation below do not reflect my company official best practice. this is purely for simplified explanation only.

Is your valves TAT potential candidates? Let say the design Class is 300#, design temperature is -29 degC (theoretical winterizing in Europe) and 400degC. Body material is A105N.
Do internal test as follow:
- at ambient temperature, MAWP as per ASME16.34 for A105N, cycle valve 80 times --> measure Fugitive Emission, Seat leakage and Body test
- at 200degC (intermittent temp), MAWP as per ASME16.34 acc to its temperature, cycle valve 100 times --> measure Fugitive Emission, Seat leakage and Body test
- at 400degC (max temp), MAWP as per ASME16.34 acc to its temperature, cycle valve 80 times --> measure Fugitive Emission, Seat leakage and Body test
- Ambient
- at -29degC (min temp), MAWP as per ASME16.34 acc to its min temperature, cycle valve 100 times --> measure Fugitive Emission, Seat leakage and Body test
- Final ambient temperature, MAWP as per ASME16.34 for A105N, cycle valve 80 times --> measure Fugitive Emission, Seat leakage and Body test
PS: In order to be considered for TAT success, the first criteria is all Fugitive Emission, seat leakage and body test must be consistent within range for all phases mentioned above
Not to mention, the inspection of material chemical and mechanical properties, consistencies, etc.
Let say price for TAT is 50kEUR with whatever result. Failing the test you have to re-do the test

Pass your own test and still interested to do official TAT? Ok, your selling price still have to be competitive (read: market price) for any quantities requested
What is the price of your tested valves (2"-300# Gate valve) let say 2000 EUR/each. How many order promised by the end user per year? None. Yet you have to BEP over the TAT cost.
since the valve tested A105N, can you supply Duplex valve to Shell? Most likely not, you have to do another TAT

The best practice is supply and demand. If you're aiming to supply one of end user site (which have dedicated Mechanical or valve engineer), contact him/her of what is the best approach? He/she will guide you further.
Or maybe your product is really special e.g. sampling valve, Cracking application, really high temperature application, etc.?
Hundreds of similar TAT inquiries offering same thing, can imagine that your inquiries may never been replied. There is no agency, and I cannot provide the direct contact.

Kind regards,
MR

https://nosuchvalve.com

All valves will last for years, except the ones that were poorly manufactured; are still wrongly operated and or were wrongly selected

http://www.eng-tips.com/faqs.cfm?&rat1=2&fid=376

 

[LittleInch]

Great post Danlap.

I'm always amazed any vendor considers it worth the cost / grief to do this for each type of valve and material / MESC number.

I assume Shell are now down to the big boys only and some very specialist valves.

Without a direct contact/person in such an organization I think you'll find it difficult to get any good responses. Even SGS has not been insulated from the Oil price crash so the responsible person who looks after new vendors might just have been made redundant!



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[europipe]

I can understand the point of view from Shell,
i worked a long time for another big company, they bought approx. 3000 valves, from 2" to 6" from a new vendor.
They rejected 92%, because of leakage.

 

[LittleInch]

I agree, from Shells perspective it makes sense, but they pay for it and from a vendors point of view. ....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[europipe]

Yeah, they pay for it, but I think it's worth.
Inferior valves cost more.

 

[TOVmania]

It used to payoff from spin off projects beside Shell. Nowadays, everyone wants to have the glory badge so to speak in order to differentiate them from low cost competitors.

This is not a simple process and it just has become more competitive. Unless your company is a multi billion dollar listed company that can actually service and support Shell globally,(I mean not just sales office.) there is almost and pretty much no chance.

I cannot explain how much effort and devotion is required to even get to the door. Let alone engineering, quality and finance aspects.

If your products are same old same old like the rest(the worst is the copycat products) and cannot outrun the top class, please forget it. At least for a while. This is not a good time.