Shop Drawing Review? 1

[SteelPE]

I have a project that I designed 3.5 years ago (just before the world fell apart). Drawings were sealed and submitted to the client for construction. I received a set of shop drawings last week for the project with a request to review them immediately. Yesterday I went into the project folder to create the file where I keep the shop drawings and to my surprise I had already reviewed the shop drawings for this project (happened about a month after I finished the project in the middle of the collapse of the world). Upon inspection of the two sets of drawings I figured out that they were completely different and this new set was going to require another complete review. No changes had been made to the project in 3.5 years.

Question is, do I invoice the client for this second shop drawing review after I completed my contractual obligation to review shop drawings 3.5 years ago?

 

[jayrod12]

What sort of relationship do you have with the client? What sort of fee structure is in place? How many hours do you expect to need to complete the new review?

In our office, if we've got a bit of room in the fee, and the review is only going to take an hour or two, we usually wouldn't bother. But if we've already blown the fee, then we're asking for additional. If it's a client that brings us a ton of work, we may let it slide.

Often these sort of things are situationally dependent.

 

[phamENG]

All depends on the contract. If you have an open ended contract that just says you'll review shop drawings, you may have a hard time getting paid if the client is unreasonable. Given the period of time, though, you should be able to ask for it.

My contracts state that shop drawing reviews are hourly - period. I've had too many incompetent contractors that never seem to get it and I end up going through 4 rounds or GCs that try to pass off their QC responsibilities on to the design team to agree to any sort of fixed fee agreement for construction services. For a really good client with a good contractor that does it right the first time...I'll usually let it slide. But it's there to lean on if they send me trash worthy only of a bucket of red ink. I also have a provision that allows me to bill hourly to 'restart' projects that have been stopped for 6 months or more.

 

[EngineeringEric]

Don't review it until you have a contract. Get a new contract with the current rates and make sure you were paid in full for the past work.

And yes, you are 100% deserving of full compensation for the last review and the current review, and if they change it again the next review.
If you feel bad, don't; if you still feel bad do the service at T&M only.

 

[SteelPE]

Pham,

I like the restart fee. This is a client who like to start projects and then stop them. I have been working on a different project for this same client that has started and stopped 3 times already (project started in 2018). Client is a bit of a pain, but while he does sometimes question the fees, he has historically paid the invoices I submitted.

I ended up sending an email to the client outlining the extra work to review the shop drawings.... still not sure if I will invoice them for that work though. I may just let it slide.

 

[Aesur]

@SteelPE, I have had this happen a few times and because the economy has changed, costs are up, etc. I have started adding clauses to contracts that require the CA to start and finish within a certain time period after sealed CD's else I reserve the right to update CA pricing. Doesn't help older contracts however many clients have actually requested updated CA when this has happened, the ones who haven't we just did them and let it go. What I'm getting tired of is some jurisdictions only accepting "reviewed" and not allowing "reviewed and noted" which requires sometimes 10+ shop drawings reviews of the same shop drawings (think large truss or steel submittals). Engineers have to find a way to properly charge for CA as I am not aware of many engineers who profit off CA, and are lucky to break even for CA. Too bad it's not all hourly!

 

[phamENG]

Aesur - make it hourly! I bet the steel detailer is charging every time...

 

[Aesur]

@phamENG - I try to make CA hourly where I can, however many architects refuse to accept hourly as it becomes them on the hook as they claim they have to give a fixed fee to the owner/developer. I have been a bit more successful with hourly estimated not to exceed, where they have fixed number, but it's not set and can be negotiated if hours exceed estimated. I find it easier to get hourly estimated on smaller projects, like custom houses, but not so easy on commercial, which accounts for the majority of our work. I believe the saturated West Coast market is to blame for the fixed CA fees as the architects are constantly trying to undercut one another, even asking for $100 off sometimes to get to "where they need to be to get the project".

 

[Greenbuild]

@SteelPE, Are you licensed in Connecticut? I have been reading a lot of your post and have a project in Hartford Connecticut. A old factory that I want to add a PEMB to the side of while raising the roof of the existing building. If you don't have a licence in Connecticut could you point me in the right direction? Thank you.

 

[TLHS]

The problem is that free construction support, contract admin and similar doesn't make it obvious that they're using a bad supplier. It also puts you in situations where you end up doing people's work for them to avoid having to spend more time down the line. If there's a quality issue on the engineering drawings, or the markups are unclear, fine. If the people doing the work on the other end are doing stuff that doesn't make sense and you have to hold their hands it's ridiculous.

If people won't accept hourly, I try to throw in clauses that let me exit the fixed price condition after a certain point by making what I've included explicit and countable. Stuff like

"Pricing is based on two reviews of shop drawings for the following items [list rebar, steel shops, etc]. Drawings for each category shall be submitted in a single consolidated package and shall not be reviewed piecemeal. Additional reviews shall be charged (hourly / at $xxx per review). X hours of support is included for field questions and RFIs relating to the resolution of trade co-ordination issues, field conditions, contractor preference, or for items otherwise beyond the engineer's control. Hours beyond this level may be charged on a time and materials basis."

 

[AaronMcD]

CA is hourly on every project I do.

Definitely hourly if they are making you do the same thing twice.

And even more definitely hourly 3.5 years later. You have a time limit for your proposals/prices?

http://www.hellodwell.design

 

[milkshakelake]

It sounds like the client is willing to pay, which is good. Theoretically, if it's a client that pushes and won't pay, it's one of those cases where I'd just do the work (just to not hurt my reputation and make sure the thing gets built correctly) and then throw the client away if I can afford to lose them. Shop drawings are no joke, it could take days to review them sometimes.