Shopping for Software 5

[Survimator]

Our company is in the market for a 'total-package' software package, covering earthwork: take-offs (digitizing w/ACAD), estimating and accounting.

We're putting together a short list of 3-5 of the most preferred programs in the industry. Any and all recommendations you folks might have would be most welcomed.

In my poking around the Net for just a few hours these two packages look appealing: Sage Timberline and Quest.

Thoughts?

Matthew
(a.k.a Survimator)

 

[hammerslamer]

I am starting soon with a excavation/concrete company that has TL Cut&Fill, which I have never used. I am also interested in an evaluation by a seasoned user.

 

[rmadrid]

What type of business is the software for? As for what I have read Quest appears to be a more popular software in the earthwork and grading industry.

 

[Survimator]

"What type of business is the software for? As for what I have read Quest appears to be a more popular software in the earthwork and grading industry."

Thanks for asking, rmadrid.

The company's primary focus is on earthwork (commercial and residential). To which, there are subsidiaries in the way of: land development, trucking, and site-clearing.

What we want to implement is a software package (whether provided by one company or multiples that interface), which covers earthwork, estimating, and accounting.

To date, I've been able to gather a little more info on systems by Bid2Win, Quest/Maxwell, and Sage-Timberline. It's a lot to digest and decision-making will likely be a slow process. Hopefully with the help of others in the office we won't end up buying something that will just end up on a shelf somewhere.

Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Ingy]

You may want to investigate Hard Dollar.

http://www.harddollar.com

You will encounter some difficulties in trying to merge field management, with estimating, with accounting. All three have very different needs and philosophies. You will have to decide what you want the software to be really good at, and for what you want it to be adequate.

Another thing to remember, IMO, is not to let accounting drive the bus. Accounting deals with the money that the estimating and operations groups make. You may want to split out the accounting from the other functions.

I work for a general engineering contractor and we switched to Hard Dollar a couple of years ago and are currently in the process of upgrading our accounting and PM software. We are switching to Viewpoint. The estimating software can export data to the accounting package but we are choosing not to. I have found that these kinds of interfaces fall apart at the "quantum" level. That is to say, that the level of detail is immense and its the details that muck things up. Lots of vendors these days are promoting their "total package integration." I'd be wary and insist on some real world demonstrations where you try your hardest to make it not work. If you can't make it fall apart, then you've found yourself a good product.

From what I've seen the three main estimating packages out there for your type of work are: Hard Dollar, HCSS, and Bid2Win. I've used all three and they are all good. There are others I'm sure.

Accounting packages for earthwork guys would be Viewpoint, Maxwell, and Explorer. There are others but they are the ones that made our short list.

I've never been particularly impressed with Timberline accounting or estimating. It is tailored for general building construction and we found it limiting. The building guys love it though.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[Survimator]

Ingy...VERY HELPFUL! Thank you.

Please, I welcome further imput from anyone else.

 

[Shwenkerbean]

I generally agree with Ingy. What I am a bit confused about, maybe I missed something, what are you using for calculating volumes. The best Hard Dollar bid can be absolutely worthless if the volumes are wrong.

I have been a big Agtek guy for years. I have seen too many engineer volumes out of Autocad that have been very different from Agtek. I have run productivity analyses on very large grading jobs and have come very close to the Agtek volumes. I haven't come close to the engineers. I just don't the Autocad has nailed quantities yet. Moreover, engineers sometimes look at volumes very differently from contractors.

For instance on a small grading job, sectional thicknesses can substantially effect the volumes. Agtek does a great job with "contractor" issues like these.

From the standpoint of bidding and jobcost, I have heard good things about Hard Dollar. Several of my clients use it. I just think that sometimes all of these bidding packages make estimators a bit too detached from their analyses.

 

[Survimator]

Hey Shwenkerbean…

Volumes are calc’d with In-Site. It gets the job done.

We use ACAD around the office but not for volume calcs.

Agtek has stopped by for a demo a couple of months ago, but the $20k figure won’t fly. Looks like a very good program, nonetheless.

Folks here were hoping to find something that makes the flow of data from earthwork take-offs to estimating to accounting go a whole lot smoother. Right now the Quest/Maxwell combo appears decent. Even if we held onto In-Site…Maxwell would interface with it, as I understand.

Was able to view HardDollar’s basic demo, but have yet to give them a further look. Thanks for the help here!!!

 

[Shwenkerbean]

I have consulted on quite a few litigations that involved a variety of grading related issues. One problem I have seen as an estimator for grading companies and as a consultant is a disconnect between the estimating for a project and the reality of a construction project. If things get too easy, estimators don't feel the project.

I have always been leary of the all in one setups for construction company software because of this. Don't get me wrong, I have three laptops and two computers at my desk. I'm a computer guy. I just get worried about contractors relying to heavily on computers.

 

[Survimator]

Thanks Shwenkerbean, appreciate the input and understand the concern.

Agreed, as one who works both in the field as a surveyor and in the office as estimator, I see the need to keep your finger on the pulse. Besides, our company owner is a very 'real world' kinda guy.

Thank you again for the help!

 

[Bauld]

We use Agtek for most of the takeoffs and then use Quest for estimating. So far this is the best combo we've seen. We're thinking about switching accounting software because our current one won't conform to our needs. We just switched 6 months ago. I went to a Quest training last week and Maxwell's AC program looks like it mixes well with Quest Estimator and Earthworks for a all around good package if it meets your needs.

 

[Survimator]

Bauld--

This helps out a whole lot, in confirming a few of my own suspicions. And, if I were to guess...the move we'll make is along the lines of: In-Site to Quest to Maxwell

I also liked what Quest/Maxwell offers!!!

Agtek appears topnotch too, but folks here don't see the value in utilizing this instead of our present combo of ACAD & In-Site. Nonetheless, the Quest-Maxwell package may be the next step forward.

Thank you for the input!

 

[DirtEstimator]

I personally use a program sold by MAxwell Communications (formerly Quest Solutions). I have had very good experiences with this program vs others I have used. The contact infor for Maxwell is 800-452-2342, they also offer technical support that is second to none.

 

[Survimator]

DirtEstimator --

Excellent! Appreciate the input!

 

[Nick42]

We use Agtek for volumes, and Heavy Bid for estimating, and Viewpoint for accounting, the combo works well, Viewpoint and Heavy Bid communicate for a nearly seamless interaction.

 

[Survimator]

Thanks, Nick!

 

[purdue87]

i bought a concrete construction company about 3 years ago. bought timberline accounting and estimating. both suck in my opinion. salesmen blew smoke. timberline is powerful, however, finding someone to run either accounting or estimating is very difficult. the tline databases have no assemblies based on crew rates, which is what we use. maybe 3-4 out of several hundred. we dial the crew rates based on feedback from the field production. i ended up buying WINEST. VERY good software.... searched for a year.. MC2 looked like good software but the salesman would not give us a trial software disk to look at. looked at all of the software out there. the software you buy is only as good as the production data you're getting from your field.

 

[purdue87]

also,..... another point is that to tie the estimating to the accounting package doesn't necessarily need to be done electronically... you can estimate all kinds of things but you need to be able to track each cost code from the field. in our case ($10M+) we can only track 20-25 cost codes. therefore my estimate needs to be boiled down to that level... then handed to accounting. AND your accountant needs to be able to support your package if tied to accounting (timberline in my case was not easily supported by my accounting firm)....

 

[Survimator]

Thanks, Purdue!

I appreciate the straight forward comments about Timberline. There's been others who have also advised that it's not much of a user-friendly program.

We are still on the look-out for such programs, yet it's been a very slow process. Further comments are welcome!

 

[jdonville]

Survimator,

My firm uses Hard Dollar. Management loves it even though we probably don't use most of its functionality (just for bids, AFAIK).

I am scheduled to take their basic level of training in January.

As for quantities, estimated earthwork quantities are only as good as your existing site survey data and your experience. If you know that trucking volumes are usually 30% greater than in-place volumes, then you should figure your jobs that way regardless of your estimating software.

Jeff