should i accept a low-ball offer? 10

[ragedriven]

I have 4 years experience in geotechnical engineering, I just sat for my PE exam last weekend and likely passed. My previous salaries steadily increased to just under $60,000 over the last 4 years.

I have been laid off for 8 months now. I have had very few call backs. I got an interivew, then called back for a 2nd, and then a 3rd, just got an offer letter for $37,000/yr with an expectation of 55 hrs/week (comes out to $13/hr).

I'm not sure I would be able to pay the mortgage with that, much less be comfortable with a wife and 3 kids. I haven't gotten any reliable salary info for the Southern US, but a licensed geotechnical PE for $37K? At this point in my career I wouldn't be stamping anything of course.

The offer letter states I have 2 days to accept, this makes me think they have 5 or more candidates and low-ball each one til someone accepts. Should I try to counter offer, just take it, or refuse? I dont have a gauruntee of a pay increase to match my experiencea year or 2 years down the line. Maybe they think i'll work for a 10% raise every year and in 30 years be back to what i was making.

I am currently thinking I will make a counter for at least $45,000 and continue with the job search if they refuse.

 

[Lion06]

I'm looking at this a little differently, but $37k for an EXPECTED 55 hours per week? That's outrageous IMHO. That leaves almost no time except for weekends to spend with your wife and three kids. Additionally, if they are expecting 55 in the offer letter, then that is essentially your baseline (40 hours) so don't be surprised if that 55 quickly turns into 60-65, just like everyone else's 40 turns into 50.

That being said, if you NEED the job take it, but for goodness sake keep looking like you are still unemployed.

 

[ischgl99]

I would rather be unemployed then accept a job offer that low, especially with the 55 hr/wk requirement. I made more then that with 4 years experience in 1994 and my unemployment check last summer (out of work for 5 months) came out to a "salary" of $29k/yr. You could probably make more then that as a maintenance tech, at least at our plant our techs make double that with overtime and they are midrange for the area.

There is something to be said for working while looking for a new job, but you also cannot dedicate as much time as you could if you were home. The decision on whether to take the job or not really comes down to if there are any other potential opportunities in your area. I would certainly make a counter offer and see what they say, but from what you have reported so far, it looks like they want the lowest cost person regardless of quality.

On a positive note, I have gotten 4 phone calls in the last few weeks from recruiters I talked with last summer so it appears the job market might be opening up again.

 

[ajack1]

I am never really sure what sort of positive response people expect to the original post.

I am sure most if not all will agree that is very poor money especially for those hours. I am sure most if not all could give examples of when they would not even consider taking a job on those terms, however those unfortunate enough to have been without work and struggling to make ends meet know that not everything in the world is ideal.

It really boils down to you and your family, if you can get by on benefit and are happy to “scrounge” from society then don’t take it, if you need the money or working gives you a higher self esteem then take it.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

I would reply thanking them for the offer, but point out the typos in their numbers. Obviously they should have been $55,000 and 37 hours.

Add that you will be pleased to accept the offer once the typo's have been corrected ... in writing.

They will probably not even bother to respond, but at least you will have made your point in a professional manner.



Or you could take the other approach and respond with

 

[jgailla]

I am also unemployed. If you take the lowball offer now, it will hurt you for the rest of your career in the field you are in.

The next job will ask you how much you are making and will only give you an increase on that. So if you're making $37k and get another job, don't expect to make more than 10% to 15% more.
If you take it, it will take you years to get back to your current salary.
If you do not take the job, you will be able to use your previous salary as a baseline.

I've only been out of work for a month, but I'm not taking any lowball offers until my savings run out and I'm forced to.
I'd love to work, but not if it will hurt me in the long run. If you take this job for $37k, it could take you 5 years or more to get back to $60k. If you wait, you might be able to get a decent paying job in a few months.

Besides, do you really want to work for a company that you already know is going to screw you over every chance they get?

 

[RoyTyrell]

wow, that's pretty bad. Geotech is probably the worst hit of all the fields of civil. In my opinion it is the worst branch of civil in terms of a career path.

If you have to - take the offer. But I'd *definitely* keep looking.

Unless you have a Masters, get out of geotech. Every geotech I've ever met is bitter and frustrated with their career and pay far beyond even your typical engineer. It's just such a limited field.

Look into road and public work contractors. you would have a better career op. and definitely make more money.

Just my $0.02

 

[graybeach]

Most geotechs I know have advanced degrees - do you? If so, 37K is extra outrageous. I made about 37K when I had 4 years experience and a masters degree back in 1988! Definitely counter the offer and, if they refuse, move on. At the very least, insist on overtime pay for work beyond 40 hours. You could make more than $13 an hour being a waiter or a bartender.

 

[DWHA]

Take the job & keep looking. Personally I would rather work for less than I am worth than sit at home an collect a unemployment check. I guess I have too much pride to accept handouts if there are ANY other options....

 

[macmet]

I have been laid for almost 6 months now. Luckily, I just accepted an offer and start work in a couple weeks.

I turned down a low offer just after Xmas and I'm glad I did. I found a job that pays a lot better that I would never have found had I accepted the other job.

I'm lucky in the fact that I have no kids, wife, or mortgage, in the sense that I wasn't in a situation where I had to take the job. But, IMO if you're working 60 hours a week and you have a family on top of that, it's going to be tough to find the time you need to find that better job.

I'm not sure where you were laid off from, but have you tried going back there? I know where I was laid off the company has started turning it around a little bit and if I was desperate they might be in a position to hire me back if I had asked.

 

[shadow401]

Either the economy will pick up and you will have the power to renegotiate or the economy will tank even further and your next job offer will be even less. Don’t be one of the people who have had their house on the market for the past 3 years because they won’t lower their price.

 

[berkshire]

ragedriven
You do not say which state you are in, Southern US covers a lot of territory. California is paying $23,400. per year in unemployment compensation to a person with a salary of $60,000. Georgia pays $17,160 If you are east of California then take the job and keep looking. If you are in California you may make more money staying home when you factor in your driving expenses. This would give you a better opportunity to keep up your job search.
However employers do have a nasty habit of wanting to hire somebody who is already employed.
B.E.

 

[CarbonRod]

I would be insulted. I AM insulted for you. The job market seems to be unfreezing... for a while there I was in the same boat: no interviews, calls, nothing december-early march. Then all of the sudden it began... lots of interviews. I say hang in there a little while longer and find something better.

 

[tygerdawg]

Sheesh. Lots of anger here, them negative vibes are distracting.

How hungry are your wife & 3 kids?

Sometimes you must do what you must do. Other times, not so much.

Of course they're lowballing you. That's the game. Strap on the pads and get in there and play with the big boys. You've got nothing now, so you've got nothing to lose.

Counter back with a little higher pay, less hours.
Counter back with higher hourly rate as an independent contractor, no bennies, and guaranteed weekly hours + OT.

Wake up, smell the coffee, and realize that this new job (and the next, and the next, and...) are only stepping stones to the next job. As an underpaid overworked taskmaster's lackey you may gain amazing hands-on real-world experience. This is price you would pay for that very intense and valuable work experience. On the other hand, if you don't feel that this position would provide you with useful experience, reconsider.

DON'T go in there with a "this is insulting" chip on your shoulder, you are only worth what the market will pay. Be professional at all times. THAT will pay tremenous benefits in the long run.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[kelowna]

Just for consideration. Another reason to take an underpaid job is that it might allow you to network and interact with other engineers/companies/clients/supliers and they might offer you a job. In my experience, many jobs are not filled through advertising but through networking.

Obviously I agree with everybody that the company is abusing its position but what goes around gets around. The same company might see itself with no employees in 2 years.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

"The same company might see itself with no employees in 2 years. "

Only if people stop accepting their ridiculous low-ball offers. As others have pointed out, you could earn more by waiting tables, bar-tending or pumping gas.


"Counter back with higher hourly rate as an independent contractor, no bennies, and guaranteed weekly hours + OT."

That's the best idea I've read so far. Especially if able to work from home.

 

[RoyTyrell]

You know - I kinda have to disagree with "if you have a job it's easy to find a job" conventional wisdom. Particularly in this market.

I've gotten several calls just in the past 2 weeks from recruiters, and had 2 interviews, based on the fact that I was "immediately available". I have 2 side gigs doing inspection work for a contractor under my own business - and, as a P.E., I consider myself permanently employed, even if that employer is myself. And even if that employer is broke

What counts is experience. Engineers are not pack mules or worker bees. Be a "hard worker" is not nearly as valuable as being a smart-one.

Don't fall for the mind games or intimidation tactics. There are some good companies out there that would love to bring on people, pay them well, treat them right - but they are in the same boat as everyone else. Economy bad = no hiring.

But that will change. I see it changing now.

 

[KENAT]

Hmm, not sure where all these service sector jobs making $13+ an hour for 55hrs a week are - or at least were when I would have taken one.

I worked retail for a year when I was first in the states 'cause I couldn't find an engineering one - $37k would have been darn tempting - more than double the pay I was getting in retail. I was making much less than $13/hr, just over half as much a regular old 'sales associate', and some weeks got less than 20 hours and rarely very close to 40 hours. Working 2 jobs sounded like a good idea until I tried to schedule the shifts for both.

Of course, I didn't have any unemployment benefits to rely on.

So if you can afford to say no to this offer good on you. However, if you have bills to pay, a family to support...

I was at a job fair just today, my guess is a lot of the other folks there would have taken a $13/hr job and been gratefull.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
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[HDS]

ragedriven

So many people took the time to respond how about a reply?
What did you do and how did it go?

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

KENAT ... You were in retail grocery if I remember correctly. Not a hope in hell of getting tips there.

Consider a waiter at a reasonably good restaurant (not a greasy spoon);
Waiter serves 3 tables per hour
Average tip for good service is 15%
Average food bill per table is $40 (mix of two and four people)

So 3 tables at $40 x 15% = $18

Subtract the sharing for non-serving staff, say probably 1/3, so balance is $12

Even if the tips were half that amount, add minimum wage and the $13/hr is easy.

 

[KENAT]

Good waiters/waitresses/bar keeps in moderately good establishments do OK, sure. However, a lot of them are part time gigs, so I wouldn't count on getting anywhere near the 55 hours mark. Or if you do it's because you're working 2 gigs or the like.

My wife gets to see pay checks for all kinds of manual and service sector jobs, now of course I'm sure some of them play down how much they make in tips, but still the pay and the hours per week don't really add up to 37k.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​